Religious

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

There is a substantial difference between no man merits (deserves) salvation and man deserves all the pain and suffering God can heap upon man. The Good News is God is loving, merciful and forgiving, even though we don't deserve it. The Good News is not God desires to heap pain and suffering upon us.

Well...good because I never said that man deserves all the pain and suffering God can heap upon man. The kind of language clearly suggests that God would be an unrighteous judge. So you see..."there is a substantial" difference between what you have said above and me saying, for example, that whatever pain or suffering man incurs, God has justly given what that man deserves.

But you are half right on your last sentence. The Good News is that God does not desire to punish his elect. And that, sir, is the gospel!

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And I won't until you give me a straight answer to mine. You have never given me a straight answer. Does the Book of James (or any other NT book) teach that sinning Christians must confess their sins to other believers of the priesthood even though they haven't sinned against them personally?

What are you asking? Are you asking If someone belongs to a Church with ordained clergy if they must confess their sins to fellow congregants even if the sin was no committed against the fellow congregant?

I already answered your question, several times, about the power given to the Apostles by Jesus to forgive sins through the Holy Spirit, which is clearly stated in Scripture. So stop asking, I am not going to repeatedly answer the same question over and over. I can't help it if you don't want to accept Scriptural teaching, but my answer will not change.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I agree with you here. The vulture is not doing what it is doing out of a nefarious motivation. Its responding according to its own nature, which is survival that does not include "morals" for obvious reason. To question the birds motivation is to ignore the obvious. The question should be why is the boy in that situation in the first place. And the answer is not because God has no mercy. The answer is man's inhumanity to man.

I just know I'm going to sorry I asked, but would you care to elaborate on that last part a wee bit -- staying in the context of the boy and vulture? How is another human being responsible for that child not having enough food to eat? If there's a famine in the land, it seems to me God would be at fault. After all, God controls all the elements of nature he has created...according to the bible of course.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

What are you asking? Are you asking If someone belongs to a Church with ordained clergy if they must confess their sins to fellow congregants even if the sin was no committed against the fellow congregant?

I already answered your question, several times, about the power given to the Apostles by Jesus to forgive sins through the Holy Spirit, which is clearly stated in Scripture. So stop asking, I am not going to repeatedly answer the same question over and over. I can't help it if you don't want to accept Scriptural teaching, but my answer will not change.

And I thoroughly rebutted that dumb interpretation -- because the forgiveness of sins was through their gospel preaching and upon hearing people's confessions of faith -- NOT confessions of sins! Jesus did not send his apostles out to hear confessions of sins, anymore than the Father sent the Son into this world to hear people's confessions of sins. He sent them out to solicit confessions of faith through the preaching of the gospel -- which is precisely what Jesus did during his ministry. And I provided ample biblical proof of all this!

In short, the so-called sacrament of confession of the RCC finds its roots in horse manure!

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well...good because I never said that man deserves all the pain and suffering God can heap upon man. The kind of language clearly suggests that God would be an unrighteous judge. So you see..."there is a substantial" difference between what you have said above and me saying, for example, that whatever pain or suffering man incurs, God has justly given what that man deserves.

But you are half right on your last sentence. The Good News is that God does not desire to punish his elect. And that, sir, is the gospel!

According to your opinion of the Gospel. Your opinion which is meaningless and not relevant to me or anyone else.

So God is just to give man pain and suffering because that is what man deserves? Doesn't evil man and since all men are evil, they all deserve all the pain and suffering God can pile upon men? Therefore God in desiring to give justice is just by piling on all the pain and suffering He can upon man.

Your attempt to obfuscate with word games failed. There is no difference between what I said about your theodicy on pain on suffering and your so called explanation. A just God would give justice to evil mankind by giving them what they deserve which is all the pain and suffering God can pile on upon man.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And I thoroughly rebutted that dumb interpretation -- because the forgiveness of sins was through their gospel preaching and upon hearing people's confessions of faith -- NOT confessions of sins! Jesus did not send his apostles out to hear confessions of sins, anymore than the Father sent the Son into this world to hear people's confessions of sins. He sent them out to solicit confessions of faith through the preaching of the gospel -- which is precisely what Jesus did during his ministry. And I provided ample biblical proof of all this!

In short, the so-called sacrament of confession of the RCC finds its roots in horse manure!

In your mind and with the Bible between your ears, which doesn't count. Understand this you refute nothing with your personal interpretations based on the Bible between your ears.

Actually your theology is literally based in horses' manure. Luther described how justification works, under the Theology of the Cross using horse manure as the example. Luther taught man inside is like a big pile of steaming horse manure, however, the righteousness of Jesus covers man like a blanket of snow covers the big stinking, offensive, steaming pile of horse manure. Man cannot change inside, so God covers man hiding his insides full of horse shit and superficially sees His son Jesus.

Now Light, you and everyone else knows why boxcar disagrees with Scriptural teaching about the Kingdom of God and God being within man. After all what god would want to live in a pile of steaming shit?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

According to your opinion of the Gospel. Your opinion which is meaningless and not relevant to me or anyone else.

So God is just to give man pain and suffering because that is what man deserves? Doesn't evil man and since all men are evil they deserve all the pain and suffering God can pile upon men? Therefore God in desiring to give justice is just by piling on all the pain and suffering He can upon man.

Your attempt to obfuscate with word games failed. There is no difference between what I said about your theodicy on pain on suffering and your so called explanation. A just God would give justice to evil mankind by giving them what they deserve which is all the pain and suffering God can pile on upon man.

No. I don't buy into your unbiblical premise. Nowhere in scripture does it teach that "God will heap all the pain and suffering and misery upon men that he can." That is your perverted sense of God's justice. What scripture does teach is that God will render unto every man what he deserves! Big Difference!

Matt 16:27-28
27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds.
NASB

And,

Rom 2:6
6 who will render to every man according to his deeds:
NASB

And,

Job 34:11-12
11 "For He pays a man according to his work,
And makes him find it according to his way.
12 "Surely, God will not act wickedly,
And the Almighty will not pervert justice.
NASB

And,

Isa 3:10-11
10 Say to the righteous that it will go well with them,
For they will eat the fruit of their actions.
11 Woe to the wicked!
It will go badly with him,
For what he deserves will be done to him.
NASB

And,

Jer 17:10
10 "I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the results of his deeds.
NASB

So...Deceiver, you will not find one verse that teaches what you say. God does not punish men unjustly. He does not pile on all the pain and suffering he can on sinners. He gives each of them ONLY what each deserves -- no more -- no less!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

In your mind and with the Bible between your ears, which doesn't count. Understand this you refute nothing with your personal interpretations based on the Bible between your ears.

Actually your theology is literally based in horses' manure. Luther described how justification works, under the Theology of the Cross using horse manure as the example. Luther taught man inside is like a big pile of steaming horse manure, however, the righteousness of Jesus covers man like a blanket of snow covers the big stinking, offensive, steaming pile of horse manure. Man cannot change inside, so God covers man hiding his insides full of horse shit and superficially sees His son Jesus.

Now Light, you and everyone else knows why boxcar disagrees with Scriptural teaching about the Kingdom of God and God being within man. After all what god would want to live in a pile of steaming shit?

Good...then all you have to do is prove from the bible why the Father sent the Son into the world and why Jesus sent the apostles into the world. I have supported my arguments from scripture. As usual, you can only be what you are -- a religious empty suit!

[Show Me the Wire]

I don't buy into your unbiblical premise. Nowhere in scripture does it teach that "God will heap all the pain and suffering and misery upon men that he can."

Did you not say God is being just when man gets what man deserves?

boxcar said while talking about pain and suffering:

God has justly given what that man deserves.

Also:

What scripture does teach is that God will render unto every man what he deserves! Big Difference!

Tell us boxcar what would a just God will render unto evil man? What does an evil man and since, according to you, all men are evil have rendered unto them by God in God's justice? Don't say what they deserve, because that would be another obfuscation. Tell us exactly according to your theodicy specifically what men deserve and thus will be rendered to men.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Good...then all you have to do is prove from the bible why the Father sent the Son into the world and why Jesus sent the apostles into the world. I have supported my arguments from scripture. As usual, you can only be what you are -- a religious empty suit!

You have supported your argument with what you think Scripture says, not by what is actually written in Scripture. I have given you written Scripture which you deny, due to your personal opinions.

One thing I know, according to your theology, you are a big pile of steaming shit and you sure spread a lot of it around here.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Did you not say God is being just when man gets what man deserves?

boxcar said while talking about pain and suffering:



Also:



Tell us boxcar what would a just God will render unto evil man? What does an evil man and since, according to you, all men are evil have rendered unto them by God in God's justice? Don't say what they deserve, because that would be another obfuscation. Tell us exactly according to your theodicy specifically what men deserve and thus will be rendered to men.

You're a professing Christian and you must ask what God will render unto the wicked? Seriously? Are you this bible-illiterate? Ever hear about hell?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

You have supported your argument with what you think Scripture says, not by what is actually written in Scripture. I have given you written Scripture which you deny, due to your personal opinions.

One thing I know, according to your theology, you are a big pile of steaming shit and you sure spread a lot of it around here.

And you haven't? YOU THINK John 12 is teaching about forgiveness on the basis of confession of sins -- even though confession of sins is not even mentioned in the passage!

So...again, prove to us that the Father sent Jesus into the world to hear men's confessions so that he could either forgive or not forgive their sins, and then He, in turn, also sent his disciples into the world for the same reason.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You're a professing Christian and you must ask what God will render unto the wicked? Seriously? Are you this bible-illiterate? Ever hear about hell?

What Scripture states and you state often are two different things. I asked you about your theodicy, I didn't ask about Scripture.

I asked you because some reformed traditions have the theodicy that man deserves, on earth, all the pain and suffering God can pile upon man. With thousands and thousands of Protestant sects it is difficult to actually know what each and everyone teaches about pain and suffering on earth, so I ask.

If I understand you correctly God being a just God, even though He has the right according to justice to give man pain and suffering, God chooses not to. If that was and is your position, you would have saved yourself alot of grief over your response to the vulture picture, by stating your above position.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And you haven't? YOU THINK John 12 is teaching about forgiveness on the basis of confession of sins -- even though confession of sins is not even mentioned in the passage!

So...again, prove to us that the Father sent Jesus into the world to hear men's confessions so that he could either forgive or not forgive their sins, and then He, in turn, also sent his disciples into the world for the same reason.

We have been through this. I have moved on. If you don't like the answer too bad. You are free to believe your interpretation.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

What Scripture states and you state often are two different things. I asked you about your theodicy, I didn't ask about Scripture.

I asked you because some reformed traditions have the theodicy that man deserves, on earth, all the pain and suffering God can pile upon man. With thousands and thousands of Protestant sects it is difficult to actually know what each and everyone teaches about pain and suffering on earth, so I ask.

If I understand you correctly God being a just God, even though He has the right according to justice to give man pain and suffering, God chooses not to. If that was and is your position, you would have saved yourself alot of grief over your response to the vulture picture, by stating your above position.

I very clearly stated my position about the picture. I essentially said God has no moral obligation or duty to relieve the suffering of the child. Conversely, it is mankind who has all the moral duty toward God!

Eccl 12:13-14
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole [duty] of man.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
NIV

I'm so happy to see that we're finally on the same page with regard to the child and the vulture.