COMPELLING new view of the FOUL

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Grits

Jocko, I don't know. I've got a feeling the Wests will drag this out until they get their way. And that could be years and years. So, so embarrassing.

If they want court, I hope Mark Casse is called as a witness.....this is crap like I've never seen. I could bite a nail in half. Trainer goes from a 21 to a 31 win % in four years. Give me a damn break.

They will have to get very lucky in court. If they get a judge who follows the law, it will be a quick dismissal followed by a quick affirmance on appeal.

If they get a judge who wants to decide the Kentucky Derby, though, we are in for a long ride....

[papillon]

Originally Posted by Grits

Jocko, I don't know. I've got a feeling the Wests will drag this out until they get their way. And that could be years and years. So, so embarrassing.

If they want court, I hope Mark Casse is called as a witness.....this is crap like I've never seen. I could bite a nail in half. Trainer goes from a 21 to a 31 win % in four years. Give me a damn break.

Yeah, because Mark Casse is worth the same to the sport as an owner/breeder who has literally invested 10s of millions of dollars in this sport for over 40 years and given Casse, Prat, Gafflione, and CJ a purpose in life.

From your other posts you are heavily implying that Servis and Gary West physically abused their horse to create false injuries to defame another trainer. if you haven't filed a complaint with animal welfare you're just fos.

You clearly have some relationship with Cass and your objection isnt because of the race but the horse-- in a sport of near 100% doping--because you don't like that his dope appears to be better at it than yours.

Funny thing is, if this happened to you, you'd really know the meaning of spitting nails, and you'd do the same g-d'ed thing. That high horse you're on? Yeah, it's a shetland pony.

For all the football, basketball, baseball analogies, bad calls don't reward teams not involved in the call. You've got a horse who was beat on the square, completely irrelevant to the call, who is the KY Derby champ, and while that is lost on those who obsess over this sport, it is not lost on average joes, who don't see this as the equivalent of tipping a close game to one side, but giving the win to some team not even in the game.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by papillon

For all the football, basketball, baseball analogies, bad calls don't reward teams not involved in the call. You've got a horse who was beat on the square, completely irrelevant to the call, who is the KY Derby champ, and while that is lost on those who obsess over this sport, it is not lost on average joes, who don't see this as the equivalent of tipping a close game to one side, but giving the win to some team not even in the game.

Never in this game should you be able to push 2 to 3 horses over ten thousand paths at a crucial point in the race and get away with it free and clear.

No way. Never. Not in any race. The people who think he was robbed or didn't deserve to come down are living in a complete and utter dream world...

Twitter

After watching the above video, go ahead and tell me the 18 horse wasn't completely screwed due to the actions of the "winner." I dare you.

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Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 05-08-2019 at 02:26 AM.

[sammy the sage]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Never in this game should you be able to push 2 to 3 horses over ten thousand paths at a crucial point in the race and get away with it free and clear.

No way. Never. Not in any race. The people who think he was robbed or didn't deserve to come down are living in a complete and utter dream world...

https://twitter.com/CarsoniPH/status...28240144457730

After watching the above video, go ahead and tell me the 18 horse wasn't completely screwed due to the actions of the "winner." I dare you.

Yeah...I see THE 20 veering IN TOO....causing some grief....if going to enforce THE rules...ENFORCE the rules TOTALLY....

Yet NOT a word said....hope does go to court...

[wisconsin]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

Yeah...I see THE 20 veering IN TOO....causing some grief....if going to enforce THE rules...ENFORCE the rules TOTALLY....

Yet NOT a word said....hope does go to court...

BS. Country House was turning for home simultaneously, in an ordinary fashion, creating that optical illusion.

[Grits]

The Wests are not the first, nor are they the only owners who have spent millions of dollars in this sport. However, when you decide because of all of your money you've invested, the rules, somehow, do not apply to you? We have a problem! ... This is a truly remarkable man in regard to what he has done, helping provide healthcare to the elderly. ABSOLUTELY! Maybe you and others are unaware of this, I was not. https://www.westhealth.org/who-we-ar...t-us/founders/ Until now, I've not brought it up because ANYBODY can win the Kentucky Derby. It shouldn't hinge one iota on what someone has spent!!! There IS NO ENTITLEMENT when it comes to winning this race and the best horse, as all of us know, doesn't always win it. It can easily be, the horse with the best trip. This time, the best horse crossed the finish line first but his run was badly flawed.

Except for his photos, I wouldn't know Mark Casse if he walked through my front door. .... But Mark Casse spoke up when Max's connections began to blame his horse and rider. And this is as it should be. Mr. West has a proven path here. It's like the old family joke, everybody's watching tv, somebody passes gas, nobody owns up. They blame the dog!!

Explain to everyone, maybe, if your horse came out of the race with bad cuts and abrasions, why did you not tell this right away on Sunday morning when you were asked about your horse's condition, stating instead "he's in good order"? Why did you wait until after you went on national television....after you announced your decision to appeal the ruling and to file a lawsuit???? Why did you get a professional photographer and a state vet to come to your barn in and document all this woe when you returned home to New Jersey....after your decision to file a lawsuit???? Seriously, how many vets and photographers, they're all professionals, too, were there walking around Churchill's backside Sunday morning? .... Oh yeah, no appeal or lawsuit decision made at that point.

I have maintained my opinion, here, from the moment the replay was shown when Jerry Bailey stated his thoughts. With this understood, one can't edit the tractor wheel marks/indentions on the track out of these videos. Not from any angle. I don't care how many more videos are found. One just cannot and Maximum Security was back and forth across them. Bailey saw this immediately, even when he and Randy Moss clearly stated Max was the best horse.

The rules are the rules and if you don't like it, Papillion, maybe you should choose another sport.

This decision is not about Mr.West's reputation or his ego. And most of all, it sure isn't about his money. I do hope one thing, though. I hope Cj, Mark, Tyler and Flavien, all, have Mr.West in their contacts so they can call him, often, and thank him for giving them a purpose in life.

It's about the horse and the paths he took (and crossed). It has been from the start. I wish him well going forward as talented as he is.

Originally Posted by papillon

Yeah, because Mark Casse is worth the same to the sport as an owner/breeder who has literally invested 10s of millions of dollars in this sport for over 40 years and given Casse, Prat, Gafflione, and CJ a purpose in life.

From your other posts you are heavily implying that Servis and Gary West physically abused their horse to create false injuries to defame another trainer. if you haven't filed a complaint with animal welfare you're just fos.

You clearly have some relationship with Cass and your objection isnt because of the race but the horse-- in a sport of near 100% doping--because you don't like that his dope appears to be better at it than yours.

Funny thing is, if this happened to you, you'd really know the meaning of spitting nails, and you'd do the same g-d'ed thing. That high horse you're on? Yeah, it's a shetland pony.

For all the football, basketball, baseball analogies, bad calls don't reward teams not involved in the call. You've got a horse who was beat on the square, completely irrelevant to the call, who is the KY Derby champ, and while that is lost on those who obsess over this sport, it is not lost on average joes, who don't see this as the equivalent of tipping a close game to one side, but giving the win to some team not even in the game.

[keithw84]

Originally Posted by papillon

Yeah, because Mark Casse is worth the same to the sport as an owner/breeder who has literally invested 10s of millions of dollars in this sport for over 40 years and given Casse, Prat, Gafflione, and CJ a purpose in life.

Our CJ?

[cj]

Originally Posted by keithw84

Our CJ?

Wait, what?

[Grits]

Originally Posted by cj

Wait, what?

You got Gary West on speed dial so you can thank him for having a purpose to your life?

[dilanesp]

Grits, I understand your perspective and agree with you about the foul, of course, but I think you are being too hard on the Wests. The last time a horse was DQ'd from first in the Derby, it was Dancer's Image, owned by Peter Fuller, who, like the Wests, contributed a lot to racing. He proceeded to litigate it for years. And the Derby was a bit less central to the sport then compared to now, as a lot of other races were still big deals then. Still, the lure of winning the Derby was too great.

People call lawyers when they feel things were taken away from them. The Wests are wrong on the merits here, but it doesn't make them bad people.

[Grits]

Dilane, I'm sorry you feel this way. Not for a second do I believe they are bad people!! Did you not read my post, closely? Noting what Mr. and Mrs. West have done with a lot of their wealth. I would bet that most here didn't know where much of this couple's money has been spent. This, I clearly stated. He is a remarkable man, and I've not indicated otherwise. Still, as I said, rules are rules.



Baffert had a fine point, "sometime you just have to take your ass kicking with dignity." .... I would add, it doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on, his point goes for all of us. Including the Wests.

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Grits, I understand your perspective and agree with you about the foul, of course, but I think you are being too hard on the Wests. The last time a horse was DQ'd from first in the Derby, it was Dancer's Image, owned by Peter Fuller, who, like the Wests, contributed a lot to racing. He proceeded to litigate it for years. And the Derby was a bit less central to the sport then compared to now, as a lot of other races were still big deals then. Still, the lure of winning the Derby was too great.

People call lawyers when they feel things were taken away from them. The Wests are wrong on the merits here, but it doesn't make them bad people.

[delsully]

Originally Posted by Grits

Dilane, I'm sorry you feel this way. Not for a second do I believe they are bad people!! Did you not read my post, closely? Noting what Mr. and Mrs. West have done with a lot of their wealth. I would bet that most here didn't know where much of this couple's money has been spent. This, I clearly stated. He is a remarkable man, and I've not indicated otherwise. Still, as I said, rules are rules.



Baffert had a fine point, "sometime you just have to take your ass kicking with dignity." .... I would add, it doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on, his point goes for all of us. Including the Wests.

In all fairness to Baffert, I believe he was talking about Prat and Court.

“No one calls an objection in the Derby… It’s always a roughly run race. Twenty-horse field. I have been wiped out numerous times, but that is the Derby. I can see by the book why they did it. Sometimes you’ve got to take your ass-kickings with dignity.’”

Which makes you using the quote, oh so ironic.

[Grits]

You may think that you're really causing me to sweat bullets. But let me share with you that you're not. You can follow me all over this website all you want. And that would be pretty boring. .... Sooner or later, you'll tire.

I'm not so misinformed that I don't know full well that Bob Baffert would dare to say anything that would not be favorable to any of his clients.

I simply liked the remark.

Originally Posted by delsully

In all fairness to Baffert, I believe he was talking about Prat and Court.

“No one calls an objection in the Derby… It’s always a roughly run race. Twenty-horse field. I have been wiped out numerous times, but that is the Derby. I can see by the book why they did it. Sometimes you’ve got to take your ass-kickings with dignity.’”

Which makes you using the quote, oh so ironic.

[delsully]

Originally Posted by Grits

You may think that you're really causing me to sweat bullets. But let me share with you that you're not. You can follow me all over this website all you want. And that would be pretty boring. .... Sooner or later, you'll tire.

I'm not so misinformed that I don't know full well that Bob Baffert would dare to say anything that would not be favorable to any of his clients.

I simply liked the remark.

I have no illusions that these posts have any significant meaning whatsoever, this is a horse racing forum, not real life. I consider it good banter.

I’ve been following this TC thread since early prep season, as I have been for years. I respond to each post as I see fit, no matter who posts it. Your posts are no different.

I will continue to respond to any post I see fit. If you don’t want a response, don’t post it. It’s really that simple.

Now, I happen to think Baffert was calling out the people who claimed foul.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Grits

Jocko, I don't know. I've got a feeling the Wests will drag this out until they get their way. And that could be years and years. So, so embarrassing.

If they want court, I hope Mark Casse is called as a witness.....this is crap like I've never seen. I could bite a nail in half. Trainer goes from a 21 to a 31 win % in four years. Give me a damn break.

Bite a nail in half.....post of the thread, hands down!