Real Dirt, It's What's for Racing!

[cj]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

So when it opportunity presents itself to save horses lives and make the sport safer...we should ignore it? Should football go back to using playing without facemasks? Should baseball players go back to playing without helmets? And how has synthetics failed? If synthetics has failed.....what has dirt done? People have had over 100 years to figure out a way to make dirt safer and are no closer now than they were back then. Dirt is not the answer. Period.




I can see how this comment proves dirt is safer than synthetics. Thanks for helping me see the light.

The answer is money. Dirt tracks can be made just as safe as synthetic tracks for less. The problem is nobody in this sport has any money right now. Replace the base as happened with rubber tracks and dirt is just as safe. Lets see how safe it is at Delmar and Arlington after 50 years on the same base.

[Alacrity]

Originally Posted by cj

The answer is money. Dirt tracks can be made just as safe as synthetic tracks for less. The problem is nobody in this sport has any money right now. Replace the base as happened with rubber tracks and dirt is just as safe. Lets see how safe it is at Delmar and Arlington after 50 years on the same base.

To your first point. Nobody has money right now...but has that always been the problem? How many years have they had the opportunity to make dirt safer? Dirt racing has been around for quite some time now. I would be happy to see some strong evidence supporting that dirt is safer than synthetics. Hell I love dirt and wish it wasn't as big an issue as it is...but unfortunately thats not the case. To your second point...has Del Mar and Arlington proven to be less safe than synthetics?

Anywho...we're in the 21st centruy...lets start acting like it.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

Dirt is not the answer. Period.

Try growing a watermelon in poly.

Horses have been running on dirt for a quite a while.

Earth is where it's at. Rubber is for suckers.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

To your first point. Nobody has money right now...but has that always been the problem? How many years have they had the opportunity to make dirt safer? Dirt racing has been around for quite some time now. I would be happy to see some strong evidence supporting that dirt is safer than synthetics. Hell I love dirt and wish it wasn't as big an issue as it is...but unfortunately thats not the case. To your second point...has Del Mar and Arlington proven to be less safe than synthetics?

Anywho...we're in the 21st centruy...lets start acting like it.

Alacrity, you have arrived really, really late to the dance. Andymays may be out for the afternoon. He's the gentleman you need to be talking with. My guess is he'll be back soon. AndyM never goes too far, for too long.

By the way, which do you represent/work for . . . ProRide, Tapeta, CushionTrack?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Grits

Alacrity, you have arrived really, really late to the dance. Andymays may be out for the afternoon. He's the gentleman you need to be talking with. My guess is he'll be back soon. AndyM never goes too far, for too long.

By the way, which do you represent/work for . . . ProRide, Tapeta, CushionTrack?

I'm here. I've probably put down more words about this than anyone in the world but here some more.

Does anyone think that Trainers want their horses injured or euthanized? The reason most Trainers are against synthetics is that they get a lot more soft tissue injuries and career ending injuries. Bruce Headley is a good example. In California the person compiling the statistics flat out lied about injuries on dirt and manipulated the statistics because he is a synthetic advocate. A well maintained dirt surface with a new base is just as safe or more safe when you consider certain career ending injuries.
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http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...9&page=1&pp=15

Bruce Headley is mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore.

After attending the yearling sales at Keeneland in July and September the past 25 years and coming home with equine stars such as Kona Gold, Got Koko, Street Boss, Son Of A Pistol, Magnificience, Arson Squad and Surf Cat, the 76-year-old trainer said this week he will not attend either sale this year.

Headley is fed up with all the injuries his horses have sustained the past three years, injuries that he claims are a direct result of the synthetic tracks at Santa Anita, Hollywood Park and Del Mar.

"They're making me be a guinea pig and I'm tired of it," Headley said. "For me, the experiment is over. I'm tired of hearing how great these (synthetics) are."
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http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog...ssue-rages-on/

Excerpt:

In his request to the board, Asaro also asserted that since the middle of 2008, the beginning of the run-up to Breeders' Cup, morning and afternoon veterinary inspections have been stepped up dramatically. He points to the fact that there have been many more program and gate scratches during this period. He challenged the CHRB to disprove his assertions.

The following is a response Asaro that received last weekend--not from the CHRB but rather from veteran trainer Darell Vienna, also a member of the California Bar. Vienna developed 1992 juvenile champion Gilded Time and currently serves as vice-president of the SoCal chapter of the California Thoroughbred Trainers group. It reads:

“Andy:

“Thanks for your comments. Horsemen have been unable to reconcile their experiences on the synthetic surfaces with Dr. Arthur's conclusions. As you know Dr. Arthur has refused to provide the raw data underlying his conclusionary reports. As evidence of Dr. Arthur's incompetence or misfeasance, I direct your attention to his summary found on page 36 of the CHRB Annual Report, Fiscal Year 2007-2008

In Table I, Fatalities by Track & Surface, Dr. Arthur adds fatality figures from Los Alamitos (including Quarter Horse Racing) to establish his conclusion that synthetics are safer than dirt. Please note that 50 of the 77 fatalities reported on dirt are from Los Alamitos. Absent the inclusion of the Los Alamitos fatalities, the report would show 27 fatalities on dirt vs. 43 fatalities on synthetics.

[Alacrity]

Originally Posted by andymays

I'm here. I've probably put down more words about this than anyone in the world but here some more.

...

I've had my butt handed to me once again. well done

[Grits]

LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Welcome to Pace Advantage, Alacrity. Hope you keep that sense of humor.

I've had my butt handed to me once again. well done.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

I've had my butt handed to me once again. well done

Sythetic surfaces were put in by some people with good intentions and some people with the intention of getting rich by selling them. Just about all of the orginal claims made about them have proven to be false. The biggest lies were the "no maintenance" and "no biases".

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

So when it opportunity presents itself to save horses lives and make the sport safer...we should ignore it? Should football go back to using playing without facemasks? Should baseball players go back to playing without helmets? And how has synthetics failed? If synthetics has failed.....what has dirt done? People have had over 100 years to figure out a way to make dirt safer and are no closer now than they were back then. Dirt is not the answer. Period.




I can see how this comment proves dirt is safer than synthetics. Thanks for helping me see the light.

Synthetics have failed to prove what you are saying .
Horses still being vanned off and euthanized.
Reports of major injuries and many trainers have been vocal about it.
Were you aware of the am losses ?

Dirt needs to be maintained properly , that's an area we need to focus on.

[Alacrity]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Synthetics have failed to prove what you are saying .
Horses still being vanned off and euthanized.
Reports of major injuries and many trainers have been vocal about it.
Were you aware of the am losses ?

Dirt needs to be maintained properly , that's an area we need to focus on.

I got my booty handed to me brother. Didn't you see me acknowledge this?!

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

I got my booty handed to me brother. Didn't you see me acknowledge this?!

It wasn't that bad. No big deal. Go Dirt.

[Alacrity]

Originally Posted by andymays

It wasn't that bad. No big deal. Go Dirt.

I've been converted. I feel kinda dirty. (no pun intended)

[therussmeister]

Sadly, I've come to suspect that the safest surface is a new surface. Whether it's dirt or synthetics, to stay safe it will have to be totally rebuilt from scratch about every five years. Who has the money to do that?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by therussmeister

Sadly, I've come to suspect that the safest surface is a new surface. Whether it's dirt or synthetics, to stay safe it will have to be totally rebuilt from scratch about every five years. Who has the money to do that?

It's about every 20 years.

[DJofSD]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Horse that had to be euthanized yesterday ran on grass.

And, the point is what?

Yes, the hind quarters slipped out from under the horse and it fell hard on its near shoulder, fracturing it.

Trying to make a point about the relative benefits and detractions of dirt v. plastic dirt is one thing, but, to offer up the loss of Rough Sailing is really off base.