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01-31-2022, 04:31 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Nonsense, he knew the rule....everyone does.
If I'm at GP, in the paddock area, getting an in-person look at the horses, or maybe getting info from a trainer or connections if a horse might be cranked up, maybe that IS an advantage, when it might be the deciding factor in a tourney that's paying $725,000 for first.....But, maybe not.
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Many big players I know have connections at the track to relay such information. Is there a communication lockdown at the tournament?
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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01-31-2022, 04:40 PM
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#47
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Many big players I know have connections at the track to relay such information. Is there a communication lockdown at the tournament?
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It was just a supposition, nothing more, nothing less....
We both know many connections, does that mean we break Tourney rules when we feel like it?
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01-31-2022, 04:42 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
Your not allowed to get any knowledge from connections you may know within the industry in these tourneys? How do they police that over the days and say weeks leading up to it?
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Can't and they don't. At my table that was the first order of business every day for a couple of they guys. At least they were willing to share the info. And no, none of their hot tips led to scores.
And generally, anything that shared and was 8-1 or more on the ML would inevitably be bet down so as to be unusable in the NHC for a play.
You are supposed to declare if you are hold a racing license of any kind, and per the rules you can't play a horse you have an "interest in" - it's worded exactly that way so open to interpretation. You can ask the organizers for a ruling on this for a particular horse you are connected with.
Last edited by MooseDog; 01-31-2022 at 04:46 PM.
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01-31-2022, 05:17 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
And that's all you should have said....
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I'm allowed to have an opinion on horse racing's apparent need for drama and self destruction. IMO, there's no reason to drag tournaments or him trough the mud when it wasn't about cheating. He made a decision that violated the rules. He got DQ'd for it. He accepted the penalty. If he didn't get DQ'd or was fighting it, that would be a problem. IMO this should be over.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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01-31-2022, 05:48 PM
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#50
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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EXAMPLES NEED TO BE MADE OF THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THE RULES THAT WE ALL FOLLOW
Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I'm allowed to have an opinion on horse racing's apparent need for drama and self destruction. IMO, there's no reason to drag tournaments or him trough the mud when it wasn't about cheating. He made a decision that violated the rules. He got DQ'd for it. He accepted the penalty. If he didn't get DQ'd or was fighting it, that would be a problem. IMO this should be over.
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Remember the huge cheating scandal at the BCBC a few years ago?....How quickly everyone forgets... 
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01-31-2022, 06:02 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
It was just a supposition, nothing more, nothing less....
We both know many connections, does that mean we break Tourney rules when we feel like it?
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No, the disqualification was warranted based on the rules in place. Just questioning your supposition and whether or not the rule is necessary.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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01-31-2022, 06:03 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,655
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Rule #95 really?
when was the last time the rules were changed and how many total are there?
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01-31-2022, 06:09 PM
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#53
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2021
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davew
Rule #95 really?
when was the last time the rules were changed and how many total are there?
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I had way over 100 when I got married...
to my first wife
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01-31-2022, 06:21 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,803
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01-31-2022, 06:42 PM
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#55
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,887
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Integrity is always a good talking point, not so much an action point.
We shall see.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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01-31-2022, 06:59 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Remember the huge cheating scandal at the BCBC a few years ago?....How quickly everyone forgets... |
Cheating would be a very major problem, but if you are implying that he was using an unfair advantage to cheat, I haven't seen or heard any evidence of that. Besides, what could be a more plausible explanation than wanting to see a race we've all ben waiting for for 2 months and making a bad decision because of it?
If you are saying he had a "theoretical" advantage by being there, then they will have to bar all phone and internet access use at the tournament because if he was sitting in the hotel playing, he (or anyone else with connections in racing for that matter) could just as easily speak to a trainer, owner, clocker, or handicapper friend about the latest developments with their horses and how they look in the paddock via technology.
If you want to say that people with inside connections have an advantage sometimes, IMO they absolutely do. But they have that advantage for cash too.
I think DQ'ing him was the right answer because he broke the rules, but I think it's a mistake to blow it up beyond this forum nonsense. So much so, I regret adding to the conversation beyond my first post.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 01-31-2022 at 07:01 PM.
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01-31-2022, 09:36 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: near Lone Star Park
Posts: 5,153
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From what I have read, he asked for a masking exemption to make his selections from his room. He had to have known he was not going to be in his room. So, it appears that he wasn't just unwittingly violating the rules. He planned to violate the rules. If my understanding of the situation is correct, this is why I am very disappointed in what he did.
__________________
Ranch West
Equine Performance Analyst, Quick Grid Software
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02-01-2022, 01:29 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Remember the huge cheating scandal at the BCBC a few years ago?....How quickly everyone forgets... |
I remember it VERY clearly.
Kinchen and his running mate Peter Fornatale were in the middle of the accusations being made.
I was forced to give a 90 minute interview with some independent investigator when I finished 8th in the BCBC.
I DID NOTHING WRONG.
Well perhaps except cash in 3 of 5 BCBC's
Not long after, he and Peter put together a TV broadcast for a Tournament on the West Coast.
Wanted to make it like the WSOP coverage.
Can't remember if it was Santa Anita and Del Mar.
Fornatale reached out to me (because he had my best interests at heart) and warned me to be sure abide by the rules.
That they'd be watching closely because they wanted their tournament to be beyond reproach.
My response was....Well let's call it passionate.
As I said. All this hullabaloo seems somewhat ironic.
I'm looking forward to finally feeling comfortable with playing in 2023.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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02-01-2022, 02:22 PM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
I remember it VERY clearly.
Kinchen and his running mate Peter Fornatale were in the middle of the accusations being made.
I was forced to give a 90 minute interview with some independent investigator when I finished 8th in the BCBC.
I DID NOTHING WRONG.
Well perhaps except cash in 3 of 5 BCBC's
Not long after, he and Peter put together a TV broadcast for a Tournament on the West Coast.
Wanted to make it like the WSOP coverage.
Can't remember if it was Santa Anita and Del Mar.
Fornatale reached out to me (because he had my best interests at heart) and warned me to be sure abide by the rules.
That they'd be watching closely because they wanted their tournament to be beyond reproach.
My response was....Well let's call it passionate.
As I said. All this hullabaloo seems somewhat ironic.
I'm looking forward to finally feeling comfortable with playing in 2023.
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You keep mentioning Peter Fornatale as getting his karma, was he the runner or mixed up in this in some way?
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02-01-2022, 03:28 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
You keep mentioning Peter Fornatale as getting his karma, was he the runner or mixed up in this in some way?
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He was Kinchen's partner for the TV project and part of the impetus in sending the letter accusing me to the NTRA.
__________________
"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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