Irad Ortiz knocks a rider off a horse

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

If anything, that should cut the other way.

This would be like if football cared LESS about concussions than it did in the 1940's, or auto racing REMOVED safety measures that had been in place 80 years ago.

You should source the Paulick Report article if you're just going to plagiarize the entire thing.

Arcaro said after the race he was trying to kill the other rider. He spent most if the race intentionally bumping and put him over the rail.

The situations aren't similar at all.

What do you think.is the proper suspension for Irad?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

You should source the Paulick Report article if you're just going to plagiarize the entire thing.

Arcaro said after the race he was trying to kill the other rider. He spent most if the race intentionally bumping and put him over the rail.

The situations aren't similar at all.

What do you think.is the proper suspension for Irad?

1. I state my own opinions here.

2. I never said the Arcaro incident was identical. Since when do incidents have to be identical to make a point?

3. Personally, I think Irad should draw an indefinite suspension. Irad could have killed someone with that move. But if you can't do that, 6 months with no designated race rule would be reasonable.

4. More generally, I don't think the industry understands how precarious our position is. Florida just woke up one morning and banned dog racing by voter initiative. We should be looking for ways to show the world we care about horses and care about the people who ride them, not looking for ways to protect industry insiders. Especially with something like this that is caught on video- if you showed that video to anyone who was not familiar with horse racing, they'd be horrified.

[Jeff P]

Imo --

Friday's incident was blatantly careless.

If I were to do that on a freeway - angle in 5 or 6 lanes and wipe out a car against the right side guardrail - I could be cited for reckless driving and lose my drivers license for up to a year.

In cases like that the officer has discretion to confiscate my drivers license on the spot and I have to show up at a court hearing in front of a judge to get it back.

Racing isn't regulated like driving is. But maybe it should be.

I think a 30 day suspension is about right. If he does it again I think a much longer suspension is warranted (6 months or a year.)

I think for that type of infraction Irad should have been ruled off the grounds on the spot (mid-card on Friday) and not be allowed to ride again anywhere pending the outcome of a hearing in front of the NY Stewards.

And yes, that means he would have been forced to sit out Saturday's card. It also means the connections of his Saturday stakes mounts would have been forced to find replacement rider(s.)

I think that type of enforcement is needed to send a clear message:

Zero Tolerance for Blatantly Careless Riding.


-jp

.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

1. I state my own opinions here.

2. I never said the Arcaro incident was identical. Since when do incidents have to be identical to make a point?

3. Personally, I think Irad should draw an indefinite suspension. Irad could have killed someone with that move. But if you can't do that, 6 months with no designated race rule would be reasonable.

4. More generally, I don't think the industry understands how precarious our position is. Florida just woke up one morning and banned dog racing by voter initiative. We should be looking for ways to show the world we care about horses and care about the people who ride them, not looking for ways to protect industry insiders. Especially with something like this that is caught on video- if you showed that video to anyone who was not familiar with horse racing, they'd be horrified.

1. Own that you lifted the Arcaro stuff from the Paulick article. Its almost word for word.

2. Your point in this instance was nonsensical because the situations aren't similar. one was deliberate and one was not.

3. 6 months? You want to take away someone's livelihood for 6 months for a mistake?

4. Brush up on the greyhound stuff. Maybe find another article you can steal from

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

... endanger jockeys because some rich guy who be offended if we take his favorite rider off his horse is just unacceptable...

that's a big distortion of what you quoted from me


If LeBron James pushes the boundaries and he's destroying guys off the ball with physical play (I'd be cheering, and) some oversight from the NBA would have a rational talk with him.




They aren't going to suspend him for 50 games or have a power forward attempt to beat him in the locker room...

Aside from the NBA diligently attempting to maintain quality leadership, there aren't 100 other Lebron Jamesesis to be in position to haphazardly brutalize one... Would 'some rich guy' be upset if LeBron couldn't play? sure, but that is a cherry-picked distortion of multiple significant reasons for being rational

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Now were comparing driving a car to riding a horse and want to waive appeals, etc

Oy vey

[Jeff P]

What do you think Irad's suspension should be for Friday's infraction?


-jp

.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

What do you think Irad's suspension should be for Friday's infraction?


-jp

.

2-3 weeks maybe. Has to be served during real racing, meaning he can't appeal it forever and serve it during dead times.

Happens again make it a month and go from there.

[Jeff P]

So you said 2-3 weeks. Happens again make it a month and go from there.

I said 30 days. If he does it again longer (6 months to a year.)

You said during real racing.

I said during real racing effective immediately.

In the end I don't think we're that far apart.



-jp

.

[cj]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

3. 6 months? You want to take away someone's livelihood for 6 months for a mistake?

This isn't an electrician working in a shipyard, it is a multi-millionaire. I don't agree with six months either, but it isn't like Irad and his family are going hungry when he can't work.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Originally Posted by cj

This isn't an electrician working in a shipyard, it is a multi-millionaire. I don't agree with six months either, but it isn't like Irad and his family are going hungry when he can't work.

I'm not going to.presume to know how Irad spends his money or how much he has.

But 6 months of no income is a lot. Regardless of how much money you make.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

1. Own that you lifted the Arcaro stuff from the Paulick article. Its almost word for word.

2. Your point in this instance was nonsensical because the situations aren't similar. one was deliberate and one was not.

3. 6 months? You want to take away someone's livelihood for 6 months for a mistake?

4. Brush up on the greyhound stuff. Maybe find another article you can steal from

I know a fair amount about racing history. You should not assume I need a history lesson from Paulick.

And yes, I value human life enough that I am willing to suspend a jockey for this. If a truck driver did something similar, they might permanently lose their job.

[cj]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

I'm not going to.presume to know how Irad spends his money or how much he has.

But 6 months of no income is a lot. Regardless of how much money you make.

Well we know he makes a lot, and my opinion is the punishment should be enough that it should make him realize it is a privilege to have the job he does, not a right. Six months is probably too much as I said, but I'd be ok with two.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I know a fair amount about racing history. You should not assume I need a history lesson from Paulick.

And yes, I value human life enough that I am willing to suspend a jockey for this. If a truck driver did something similar, they might permanently lose their job.

So.Paulick writes an article yesterday talking about this incident that happened 80 years ago and today you post about the same incident, using almost identical wording that he did and you want to pretend its a coincidence?

Good to hear you value human life. Might be time to value integrity now.

[cj]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

So.Paulick writes an article yesterday talking about this incident that happened 80 years ago and today you post about the same incident, using almost identical wording that he did and you want to pretend its a coincidence?

Good to hear you value human life. Might be time to value integrity now.

Come on man, coincidences do happen. You asked him about it, he answered, no need to dwell on it. If you don't believe him. that is up to you. But harping on it isn't going to change anything.