Education Solutions

[traynor]

"Shanghai's population is significantly better educated than the national average for China.

But it also has substantial numbers of poorer pupils - and the report highlights how well these disadvantaged pupils perform in school.

The OECD's education director Andreas Schleicher has shown that in maths tests the poorest 10% of pupils in Shanghai are as good as the most privileged 20% of teenagers in the UK and the United States."
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36312064

Perhaps the most interesting part of the report is the emphasis placed squarely where it should be---on the teachers. Superior teachers create superior students. Mediocre or marginally qualified teachers (think "most US colleges and universities, most if not all high schools") create mediocre or marginally qualified students.

This ain't rocket science, folks. Throwing money at the problem does little or nothing to resolve it. The solution to poor education is very, very simple. Require better teachers. If the current crop can't keep up, let them find employment more suited to the level of their intellectual acumen, and make room for those who can.

"Shanghai, with a population of more than 23 million, has its own devolved education system, which enters the international Pisa tests in its own right.
The most recent tests, run by the OECD, have put Shanghai in top place for maths, reading and science in a global league table of countries and regional school systems.

Report author Xiaoyan Liang said: "One of the most impressive aspects of Shanghai's education system is the way it grooms, supports, and manages teachers, who are central to any effort to raise the education quality in schools."

She said the high level of public respect for teachers in Shanghai was another reflection of "how well they teach. They are true professionals".

[barahona44]

Nobody in this country wants to be a teacher, it's something they fall into.

"You get your summers off" (Great now find the money to pay us those extra 8 weeks)
"You should have known you wouldn't make much money teaching" (nobody ever says that to a doctor, lawyer, or engineer)
"Why should I read to my kid? That's your job" (Doctor, I'm eating what I feel like and not taking my meds, but it's your job to cure me)

That's the problem with education.Everybody's been to school so they think they know what it's all about on the other side of the desk.On the other hand, few of us visit a doctor more than a couple times a year and an attorney even less.

Nobody questions that better teachers make better students.But where are you going to find them?.Most urban school systems struggle to find the halfway incompetent, never mind the OK,the good or more rarely,the great.And it's only going to get worse,in most states teacher education enrollment is down, some signifigantly.

I taught for 34 years and I miss my staff, my students (well, most of them ) and my colleagues.

But I don't miss the job.

[Dave Schwartz]

Nobody in this country wants to be a teacher, it's something they fall into.

Although I really can't understand it, one of my sons has been just driven to be a teacher. He lives in California, just finished his student teaching and can't wait to teach.

Not only that, but he is completely enamored to teaching middle school in a somewhat behind-the-curve area.

IMHO, what the country needs is more dedicated teachers and a higher entry-level salary.

Oh, and a system that rewards excellence of the teachers.

[forced89]

Originally Posted by barahona44

Nobody questions that better teachers make better students.But where are you going to find them?

The first thing that has to be done is clean up the discipline in the school. The second thing is have parents who care. Not some of them. All of them. If you do that the quality teachers will come. My kids went to one of the Christian Schools here in Texas. My Daughter's kids are now enrolled in one of them. These schools hire great teachers (who don't need or want a Union) at about 60% of what they can make in the Public School System. Why do they work for less? Like I said in the beginning of this post it is a combination of discipline and committed parents.

[porchy44]

http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/china...he-pisa-exams/

“The Shanghai scores frankly to me are difficult to interpret. They are almost meaningless,” Tom Loveless, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, told the AP.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by barahona44

Nobody in this country wants to be a teacher, it's something they fall into.

"You get your summers off" (Great now find the money to pay us those extra 8 weeks)
"You should have known you wouldn't make much money teaching" (nobody ever says that to a doctor, lawyer, or engineer)
"Why should I read to my kid? That's your job" (Doctor, I'm eating what I feel like and not taking my meds, but it's your job to cure me)

That's the problem with education.Everybody's been to school so they think they know what it's all about on the other side of the desk.On the other hand, few of us visit a doctor more than a couple times a year and an attorney even less.

Nobody questions that better teachers make better students.But where are you going to find them?.Most urban school systems struggle to find the halfway incompetent, never mind the OK,the good or more rarely,the great.And it's only going to get worse,in most states teacher education enrollment is down, some signifigantly.

I taught for 34 years and I miss my staff, my students (well, most of them ) and my colleagues.

But I don't miss the job.

I fail to understand why things must be as they are. There are great teachers out there. However, hiring them is left to those with the most to lose if excellence predominates--much like many businesses.

Job security lies in hiring only those less competent.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Although I really can't understand it, one of my sons has been just driven to be a teacher. He lives in California, just finished his student teaching and can't wait to teach.

Not only that, but he is completely enamored to teaching middle school in a somewhat behind-the-curve area.

IMHO, what the country needs is more dedicated teachers and a higher entry-level salary.

Oh, and a system that rewards excellence of the teachers.

Seeking increased compensation without major re-work of the system rewards those already "teaching." Raise the bar for teachers, raise the bar for students, and deal ruthlessly with those who view education as anything less than a survival imperative for this nation (or any nation). Increased compensation will naturally follow.

Compensation as a primary focus is a big part of the problem. Too many "teachers" feel too little appreciated and too poorly rewarded to exert anything more than minimal effort. Not good. If they don't want to be good at what they are paid to do, why are they tolerated?

The essential failure of most online learning endeavors can be (and has been) directly traced to the fact that those who most want it to fail (teachers and administrators) are those tasked with "making it work." The same situation exists in implementing merit-based hiring/firing/reward systems.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by forced89

The first thing that has to be done is clean up the discipline in the school. The second thing is have parents who care. Not some of them. All of them. If you do that the quality teachers will come. My kids went to one of the Christian Schools here in Texas. My Daughter's kids are now enrolled in one of them. These schools hire great teachers (who don't need or want a Union) at about 60% of what they can make in the Public School System. Why do they work for less? Like I said in the beginning of this post it is a combination of discipline and committed parents.

There are good (and great) teachers out there. They WANT to teach, not just to have a place to go to regularly that requires little more than showing up each day to "fulfill one's duties." For all the sniveling and whining that goes on in the teaching field, the bottom line is that many (if not most) are in it because it is a refuge for low achievers and less-than-stellar-competencies.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by porchy44

http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/china...he-pisa-exams/

“The Shanghai scores frankly to me are difficult to interpret. They are almost meaningless,” Tom Loveless, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, told the AP.

Huh. Perhaps if he had gone to school in Shanghai, the results would be easier for him to interpret?

[Tom]

Get rid of tenure completely.
School is about teaching children.

Get rid of this idea that everyone wins.
It is not reality. Participation is not worthy of any trophy. Winning is worthy of a trophy. Make winning a goal, not a bad thing.

Keep boys out of the girls bathroom.
It is hard enough to teach some of these numbskulls.

Grade on results, not a curve.

[Track Collector]

No doubt that results will improve "some" with better teachers.

The problem is that "we" are ignoring reality. No much is going to change until we develop a culture of respect and personal responsibility.

China is a bad comparison regarding test results. We KNOW that the behavior of US students would not be tolerated there, and would be accompanied by significant negative consequences for both the student and/or their family.

[Tom]

How true. TC. Education begins in the home.
Or it ends there.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by Tom

Get rid of tenure completely.
School is about teaching children.

Get rid of this idea that everyone wins.
It is not reality. Participation is not worthy of any trophy. Winning is worthy of a trophy. Make winning a goal, not a bad thing.

Keep boys out of the girls bathroom.
It is hard enough to teach some of these numbskulls.

Grade on results, not a curve.

Tenure is most likely the stupidest idea anyone has ever come up with in regard to education. It has no place. No excuses, no "reasons why." It should be totally eliminated, if for no other reason than that "lifers" make the worst possible teachers (and the least motivated).

"Unconditional positive regard" (and related nonsense) has done almost as much harm as tenure. The flip side of "everyone is a winner" is a totally warped reality orientation in which no effort (or anything more than minimal effort) is required.

[traynor]

Originally Posted by Track Collector

No doubt that results will improve "some" with better teachers.

The problem is that "we" are ignoring reality. No much is going to change until we develop a culture of respect and personal responsibility.

China is a bad comparison regarding test results. We KNOW that the behavior of US students would not be tolerated there, and would be accompanied by significant negative consequences for both the student and/or their family.

Its all stuck together, and difficult to prise apart. "Reality" is that education is a business, with about as many good intentions as the pharmaceutical industry. Dewy-eyed innocents are tricked into believing their "degrees" will virtually guarantee $70K to start for shuffling papers on the desk in their corner office--on a fast track to emulating the Wolf of Wall Street. Not "what they will learn." The degree. Degrees used to be something impressive. Now it seems every unemployed wannabe who couldn't get a job out of high school and decided to "sit out the economic downturn" partying through college and living on financial aid and student loans has one. Or two. Or more.

My last full time semester was in grad school, five years ago. It was jolting to be virtually the only person in a class who was paying tuition out of pocket. Or who was not living on student loans (as an adjunct or alternative to unemployment and/or welfare).

If you have not been in college in awhile, you would probably be shocked at how much the situation has deteriorated since the "dot com bust" and the Great Y2K Debacle that never happened.

Personnel Manager: "Oh, I see you have a BS in Computer Science. Do you know how to DO anything?"

[traynor]

Originally Posted by Tom

How true. TC. Education begins in the home.
Or it ends there.

Consider that Japanese children are expected to know how to read and write (basics) when they start school. Not much of that, "Go play. Can't you see mommy's tripping?"

It is a different mindset. Education absolutely begins in the home, and schools should be more than the traditional babysitter for the rugrats until they are needed to work in the fields. (A euphemism for "summer vacation.")

Every grade should require an entrance exam. If a student has not learned enough to benefit from more advanced study, do not pass Go. Repeat.

Pretty much every student passed (to a higher grade) when they should have been failed (at the lower grade) is guaranteed a cascade of failures throughout their life. Schools should be places to learn, not substitute babysitters.