Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 12-10-2018, 07:31 PM   #1
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
Santa Anita to debut "Group Bet (Horse Racing Roulette)".

Takeout will be 15.43%

Definitely not for me.

And I understand that novices are the group who they are targeting.

@BH_JBalan


Sooooo... Here's an interesting little tidbit on the upcoming meets at Santa Anita and Golden Gate. I missed it on the meet applications that were approved by the CHRB last month, and no CHRB members asked any questions about a brand-new wager on the menu.

Jeremy Balan‏Verified account @BH_JBalan

So what's a "Group Bet (Horse Racing Roulette)," you ask? I've tried to get an explanation on exactly how it will be deployed from multiple executives at The Stronach Group and have not received a response. And it's not in the meet application to the CHRB.

Jeremy Balan‏Verified account @BH_JBalan

In the absence of a response from anyone at The Stronach Group, here is the ARCI rule for the wager, which is cited in the meet application to the CHRB. It's kind of word soupy.

Jeremy Balan‏Verified account @BH_JBalan

So here's my best guess... Every race will have "red," "black," and "green" groups of horses to wager on to win (like roulette). So if there is a 7-horse field (1-3 might be red, 4-6 might be black & 7 might be green). Odds will be parimutuel, but in a standalone pool.

Last edited by Andy Asaro; 12-10-2018 at 07:39 PM.
Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-10-2018, 08:14 PM   #2
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
Wait for a track bias and cash in.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 01:03 PM   #3
AlsoEligible
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
So here's my best guess... Every race will have "red," "black," and "green" groups of horses to wager on to win (like roulette). So if there is a 7-horse field (1-3 might be red, 4-6 might be black & 7 might be green). Odds will be parimutuel, but in a standalone pool.
That's basically correct. On the groupings, my understanding is that they'll be based on morning line odds, so that red and black are as close as possible to a 50/50 proposition. While the green group will be all longshots.

So for example, if the morning line for a race is:

#1 - 5/2
#2 - 7/2
#3 - 12/1
#4 - 12/1
#5 - 9/2
#6 - 3/1
#7 - 15/1

Then the roulette groups would be something like:

Red - #1, #5
Black - #2, #6
Green - #3, #4, #7

Won't be a perfect science, and once money starts coming in and odds change, the groups will get totally skewed. Probably some value to be found by a smart bettor, just a question of whether there's enough liquidity to care. Think it's just TSG tracks and maybe XpressBet that will be wagering to start, with the other ADWs and totes taking a wait-and-see approach.
AlsoEligible is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 01:37 PM   #4
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlsoEligible View Post
That's basically correct. On the groupings, my understanding is that they'll be based on morning line odds, so that red and black are as close as possible to a 50/50 proposition. While the green group will be all longshots.

So for example, if the morning line for a race is:

#1 - 5/2
#2 - 7/2
#3 - 12/1
#4 - 12/1
#5 - 9/2
#6 - 3/1
#7 - 15/1

Then the roulette groups would be something like:

Red - #1, #5
Black - #2, #6
Green - #3, #4, #7

Won't be a perfect science, and once money starts coming in and odds change, the groups will get totally skewed. Probably some value to be found by a smart bettor, just a question of whether there's enough liquidity to care. Think it's just TSG tracks and maybe XpressBet that will be wagering to start, with the other ADWs and totes taking a wait-and-see approach.
I actually think this is a very good idea. It could both attract show-betting type novices and offer some value to experts.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 01:58 PM   #5
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
I can see a problem if the favorite is a late scratch or any horse in each group is scratched late and people aren't able to cancel in time.



Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 02:09 PM   #6
Andy Asaro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,789
Andy Asaro is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:20 PM   #7
biggestal99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlsoEligible View Post
That's basically correct. On the groupings, my understanding is that they'll be based on morning line odds, so that red and black are as close as possible to a 50/50 proposition. While the green group will be all longshots.

So for example, if the morning line for a race is:

#1 - 5/2
#2 - 7/2
#3 - 12/1
#4 - 12/1
#5 - 9/2
#6 - 3/1
#7 - 15/1

Then the roulette groups would be something like:

Red - #1, #5
Black - #2, #6
Green - #3, #4, #7

Won't be a perfect science, and once money starts coming in and odds change, the groups will get totally skewed. Probably some value to be found by a smart bettor, just a question of whether there's enough liquidity to care. Think it's just TSG tracks and maybe XpressBet that will be wagering to start, with the other ADWs and totes taking a wait-and-see approach.

They have a similar bet in Hong Kong.


Allan
biggestal99 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:21 PM   #8
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Another terrible bet takeout wise being introduced.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:26 PM   #9
thaskalos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
Are people PAID for with these wagering ideas?
__________________
Live to play another day.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:28 PM   #10
biggestal99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggestal99 View Post
They have a similar bet in Hong Kong.


Allan

Its called the 3 Pick 1 where they group horses based upon the morning line


A1. Chalk(s)
A2. Mid price(s)
A3. everyone else


Payoffs were between 2.60 and 5.80 (for a 2 unit bet) this past Saturdays races.


Allan
biggestal99 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:28 PM   #11
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
Another terrible bet takeout wise being introduced.
The takeout is pretty low. It's not like a show pool. There is one payout and one breakage.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:29 PM   #12
biggestal99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Are people PAID for with these wagering ideas?

and to boot its a copycat.


Allan
biggestal99 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:35 PM   #13
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
The takeout is pretty low. It's not like a show pool. There is one payout and one breakage.
For a three horse bet? No way that is low.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:38 PM   #14
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
For a three horse bet? No way that is low.
It's one betting interest! Like a 3 horse entry!
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 12-11-2018, 03:48 PM   #15
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
It's one betting interest! Like a 3 horse entry!
Yes, I get it. You have three betting options with a 15+% takeout. That is terrible for horseplayers. It is slightly better than the same takeout on a coin flip, but here you won't even know the odds you are getting until after the bell.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.