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02-17-2019, 04:09 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,190
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Race 7 (3:27): By My Standards (MSW) 1:45.04 - BSF 77
Race 9 (4:31): Silver Dust (G3 older) 1:45.37 - BSF 99
fractions: Times in 100ths: :25.93 :50.74 1:14.82 1:39.08 1:45.46 '
Race 11 (5:39): Serengeti Empress (G2 3yof) 1:44.74 - BSF 91
Race 12 (6:17): War of Will (G2 3yo) 1:44.59 - BSF 92
Seems illogical to give WOW a 92 BSF. Whether you like the horse or not, that number seems borderline ridiculous
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02-17-2019, 07:53 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afleet
Race 7 (3:27): By My Standards (MSW) 1:45.04 - BSF 77
Race 9 (4:31): Silver Dust (G3 older) 1:45.37 - BSF 99
fractions: Times in 100ths: :25.93 :50.74 1:14.82 1:39.08 1:45.46 '
Race 11 (5:39): Serengeti Empress (G2 3yof) 1:44.74 - BSF 91
Race 12 (6:17): War of Will (G2 3yo) 1:44.59 - BSF 92
Seems illogical to give WOW a 92 BSF. Whether you like the horse or not, that number seems borderline ridiculous
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well, despite Beyer not factoring pace into the figures with the older horses they adjusted for the slow pace.
I will see what Timeform has as those are the numbers I use.
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02-18-2019, 04:27 PM
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#33
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
well, despite Beyer not factoring pace into the figures with the older horses they adjusted for the slow pace.
I will see what Timeform has as those are the numbers I use.
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I did something similar. We have the option of the coding the race with a 'p' for a pace adjustment which is what we did. There really was no other way. Sure, I could have rated the Mineshaft a 95 if based purely on final time, but what purpose would that serve?
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02-18-2019, 04:55 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I did something similar. We have the option of the coding the race with a 'p' for a pace adjustment which is what we did. There really was no other way. Sure, I could have rated the Mineshaft a 95 if based purely on final time, but what purpose would that serve?
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i agree, the difference is I thought, and correct me if I am wrong, there is no pace adjustment in the Beyer figures and there is in the Timeform. By essentially adjusting for the slow pace, doesnt that bring the Beyer figures more in line with the Timeform figures?
What is funny is you never see the Beyers adjusted for a wickedly fast pace, only for slow paces.
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02-18-2019, 05:25 PM
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#35
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
i agree, the difference is I thought, and correct me if I am wrong, there is no pace adjustment in the Beyer figures and there is in the Timeform. By essentially adjusting for the slow pace, doesnt that bring the Beyer figures more in line with the Timeform figures?
What is funny is you never see the Beyers adjusted for a wickedly fast pace, only for slow paces.
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There wasn't originally a pace adjustment in Beyer figures, but over time they have evolved out of necessity. I think really slow paces have become a lot more common over the last decade. I don't get all the grief Beyer gets over these breakout kind of races any longer. It isn't like he hides what he does and every figure maker does this for turf. It also is necessary on dirt sometimes, just not as often.
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02-18-2019, 05:58 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
There wasn't originally a pace adjustment in Beyer figures, but over time they have evolved out of necessity. I think really slow paces have become a lot more common over the last decade. I don't get all the grief Beyer gets over these breakout kind of races any longer. It isn't like he hides what he does and every figure maker does this for turf. It also is necessary on dirt sometimes, just not as often.
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Its just interesting for those that have followed the figures for 30 years and seen the evolution, from pace factors to horses getting incredibly slow in the modern era.
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