This doesn't sound good (for Servis and Navarro)

[Afleet]

I hated betting tracks where these people ran horses. I bet I have lost tens of thousands of dollars due to one of their freaks running 20+ greater speed figure-off a long layoff

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Afleet

I hated betting tracks where these people ran horses. I bet I have lost tens of thousands of dollars due to one of their freaks running 20+ greater speed figure-off a long layoff

I hated running against Navarro at Monmouth I had 4 seconds to him in the past 3 years and my trainer runs in the 12% win percentage range.

[baconswitchfarm]

Originally Posted by Zman179

If Surick is indeed facing 40 years in Club Fed, well...the guy is in his twenties. He will sing like a canary to get a lesser sentence. Stay tuned!

If he is facing 1 day he will sing . 😆

There are harness trainers not listed in the indictments that were picked up today so there is more to come. All the Midwest trainers using the same stuff not mentioned yet

[Gander36]

I have been advocating also suspending HORSES for bad drug tests.

If you think about it, owners and tracks would have much more to lose under this scenario, and maybe be more proactive in making sure trainers are more closely scrutinized and more harshly dealt with.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Gander36

I have been advocating also suspending HORSES for bad drug tests.

If you think about it, owners and tracks would have much more to lose under this scenario, and maybe be more proactive in making sure trainers are more closely scrutinized and more harshly dealt with.

American horse racing has no guts and likes dopers. Really.

There's a lot of sports where what Justify did would have resulted in the vacation of his entire record. When Ben Johnson failed a steroids test, he ended up losing BOTH his world records, not just the Olympic gold medal. He lost everything. In horse racing, our authorities actually covered for the dopers because they wanted Justify to keep the TC and his owners to keep the money.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Afleet

the indictment left off about 20+ trainers who win at a rate 2x that of Mott and Graham.

Please name them.

[lex]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

Reading through the indicment now, and hope all these guys serve lengthy and hard time.

Curious about something - not sure how you reference an indictment, but bullet point 50.c under count four - did the FBI surreptitiously draw blood from a horse they knew the trainer was going to try and move shortly before he actually moved it? It reads like the horse was drugged on Dec 17 2018 and then moved the day after. The FBI was able to test the horse sometime inbetween there WHILE the trainer was actively trying to avoid the NJRC? That's some next level spy stuff

I'm thinking someone tipped the NJRC about the location and they were already working with the FBI. I can't figure out how these people thought they could lie about who was training the horse.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

How this pig is still training horses is beyond me.

The feed gurus and chemical vets have always stayed one step ahead of the testing technology.

Not to mention Snake venom and whatnot, etc.

And the mistake has been that we haven't stripped their licenses for life.....PERIOD.

Instead we allow them to get in line for huge purses. Bill Kasner has been saying it for years that big purses draw the best cheaters.

Is this some kind of "new" conversation here? I am not even a little bit shocked.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Tom

Below the tip of the ice berg is the people who run the race tracks themselves. I imagine that is one huge cesspool of conflicts of interest that needs to be broken up. NO ONE associated with running a track or officiating one should allowed tho have ANY connection to the racing itself. Perhaps one of the three stewards at every track should be from the FBI.

Don't forget the vets.

The FBI has had how many ongoing investigations through the years at Penn Nat. Tell me what has really changed there?

We keep talking about all this stuff, but nothing ever happens. Everyone knows the score. That's why people are walking away from the sport. They got tired of waiting and have found other ways to spend their recreational income.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by depalma113

The FBI had McDonald's run an entire Monopoly Game when they knew the game was rigged, just so they could get more evidence on the culprits.

Based on that alone, it's pretty obvious they informed Churchill Downs Inc. that Maximum Security would be drugged they day he ran in the Kentucky Derby.

They couldn't let Churchill scratch him because they needed more evidence. Afterwards though, they could DQ him for anything that happened in the race.

Next level post.

[cj]

Originally Posted by clicknow

Don't forget the vets.

The FBI has had how many ongoing investigations through the years at Penn Nat. Tell me what has really changed there?

We keep talking about all this stuff, but nothing ever happens. Everyone knows the score. That's why people are walking away from the sport. They got tired of waiting and have found other ways to spend their recreational income.

To be fair the stuff at Penn was small potatoes compared to this.

[minethatbird08]

Originally Posted by Zman179

Here’s the tricky part: If it is proven that Servis drugged Maximum Security for the Saudi Cup, could Saudi Arabia charge Servis with a crime? If so, Servis better never leave the USA ever again.

In general I think the USA should take care of criminals in house so to speak. However, if your scenario were to take place I would be completely okay turning Servis over to the Saudi Arabian authorities. Obviously, I’m biased here but sick of these types being allowed to hang around the sport.

[Elkchester Road]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Also, even if the trainer is a "pawn", the trainer has a legal and ethical obligation not to be one.

We lawyers face this all the time. Client asks us to do something we aren't allowed to do. We're supposed to say "no". And if we say "yes", we are on the hook along with our clients.

Thank you for posting this.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by clicknow

The feed gurus and chemical vets have always stayed one step ahead of the testing technology.

Not to mention Snake venom and whatnot, etc.

And the mistake has been that we haven't stripped their licenses for life.....PERIOD.

Instead we allow them to get in line for huge purses. Bill Kasner has been saying it for years that big purses draw the best cheaters.

Is this some kind of "new" conversation here? I am not even a little bit shocked.

The one good thing about this is that federal prison is real deterrence. I suspect a lot of people who cheat in contests (and I will make it a broad statement- obviously, cheating goes on in all sorts of contests) have no thought that what they are doing violates a bunch of federal laws and theoretically carries decades of prison time.

In that sense, this is somewhat similar to the college admissions scandal. Rich parents have pulled strings to get their undeserving kids into college for many decades, and never thought about any of it in terms of being a potential federal crime. The indictments and prosecutions not only put some people in prison who deserved to go there, but also are a very powerful deterrent to scheming parents in the future.

This sort of thing is a deterrent no matter how bad state regulation is. The notion that perhaps the federal government has a warrant and is listening to your communications and monitoring your purchase of substances could significantly chill future cheaters.

[garyscpa]

Originally Posted by Tom

Below the tip of the ice berg is the people who run the race tracks themselves. I imagine that is one huge cesspool of conflicts of interest that needs to be broken up. NO ONE associated with running a track or officiating one should allowed tho have ANY connection to the racing itself. Perhaps one of the three stewards at every track should be from the FBI.

So now we trust the FBI?