Frosted

[letswastemoney]

I side with Robert Fischer's opinion.

I think Frosted should have done it, unless they were afraid of another big effort emptying the tank for the Breeders' Cup.

I'm also a bit wary of McLaughlin at Santa Anita, although I have no real statistics for that.

[cj]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much is the Lasix issue. You don't get many chances to see older horses that don't use the drug add it, and we saw again today why. It clearly can be the difference between winning and losing. Non-bleeders are at a disadvantage if they don't get it.

[cj]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

I side with Robert Fischer's opinion.

I think Frosted should have done it, unless they were afraid of another big effort emptying the tank for the Breeders' Cup.

I'm also a bit wary of McLaughlin at Santa Anita, although I have no real statistics for that.

I'll say this. He ran a 130 on my numbers in the Whitney going coast to coast and saving all the ground. Today he ran a 125 with a lot working against him and lost by a very small amount. I don't see the decline.

Maybe he is better at one turn. I can't argue that one at all given the way he ran in the Met. But this tailing off stuff I don't buy. Those were very good horses that beat him today.

[GMB@BP]

Frosted is a really good horse who had a rough trip and not his best day and was barely beat by some nice horses. I am glad they ran him instead of keeping him in the barn because of some silly sheet numbers.

I have always had some questions about his distance limitations and will likely stay away from him for those reasons, but at the right price I could use him in November.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

Trakus makes plenty mistakes. That probably isn't the case here but there is so much more to his trip than ground loss. It was a slow pace and Frosted broke pretty slowly and cost himself valuable early position.

Samraat finished dead last after being up close early, how could he possibly be relevant to the discussion?

That's making a lot of excuses for him. The "bad break" is being highly exaggerated, and I'm not even sure it wasn't purposeful so as to not get into a speed dual. Frosted could've moved up closer to the pace at any time.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

That's making a lot of excuses for him. The "bad break" is being highly exaggerated, and I'm not even sure it wasn't purposeful so as to not get into a speed dual. Frosted could've moved up closer to the pace at any time.

I'm not making excuses for a horse. I'm analyzing what I saw for future use. Like I said earlier, with Frosted, it probably won't matter. He is too well known and will never be value. I actually bet against him today...I'm no fanboy.

Wins are often not as good as they look, and losses are often not as bad as people make them out to be. Between here and Twitter you'd think Frosted should head to the shed.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm not making excuses for a horse. I'm analyzing what I saw for future use. Like I said earlier, with Frosted, it probably won't matter. He is too well known and will never be value. I actually bet against him today...I'm no fanboy.

Wins are often not as good as they look, and losses are often not as bad as people make them out to be. Between here and Twitter you'd think Frosted should head to the shed.

He should've beaten that field if he was really the horse we saw in the last 2 races. There was only one other G1 winner in the field, and the winner had never run a triple-digit Beyer. That is why people are critical of the race.

The only thing I think worth considering going into the BC is the only thing I've yet to hear anyone mention: Whether this horse is truly a different horse with a lot of time between races as KM declares. KM gave him a lot of time off after Dubai and he ran lights out. He gave him 2 months until the next one and he ran the second best race of his career. Then KM had to choose to train him up to the BC off of an almost 3 month break, or put another race into him and then he'd be going into the BC off a more reasonable 2 month break.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by cj

I'm not making excuses for a horse. I'm analyzing what I saw for future use. Like I said earlier, with Frosted, it probably won't matter. He is too well known and will never be value. I actually bet against him today...I'm no fanboy.

Wins are often not as good as they look, and losses are often not as bad as people make them out to be. Between here and Twitter you'd think Frosted should head to the shed.

to be fair this is the norm on twitter when ever good or name horse loses.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

The only thing I think worth considering going into the BC is the only thing I've yet to hear anyone mention: Whether this horse is truly a different horse with a lot of time between races as KM declares. KM gave him a lot of time off after Dubai and he ran lights out. He gave him 2 months until the next one and he ran the second best race of his career. Then KM had to choose to train him up to the BC off of an almost 3 month break, or put another race into him and then he'd be going into the BC off a more reasonable 2 month break.

The winner got first time Lasix and it mattered. Beyer-Schmeyers anyway

My point is he ran just as good today as he did in the Whitney. The difference was the trips. So I'm not buying the "needs a longer break" stuff. That is the new "cuppy track" excuse for trainers.

I've said my piece on this. Great thing about racing is we all make and back our own opinions. Always fun discussing them.

[salty]

Wow how funny. They fooled all of you, Frosted was never supposed to win the race. Can't you guys see that this was an obvious no show? The Mig of all people even pointed out that he wasn't being warmed up as well as he had been before the Whitney. Also the classic bad break excuse then going widest on the turn to really make it look bad. Can anyone tell me why they whip didn't come out in the stretch? How did this horse finish third by a neck if he was spent? How does the horse that just got the biggest figure ever a couple months ago not win this? The biggest thing that I noticed after the race was how Joel couldn't wipe the smile off his face in the paddock before the next race. Smiling, laughing even when he gets up on his horse he has to bite his top lip to try to hold in the smile. You know he didn't try to win the race. How can you be smiling and laughing after a race like that I mean really. So somebody steals your car and 10 minutes later you are laughing and smiling. No why would you! Only if you knew it was going to get stolen. Everyone up in arms over a rabbit in the sword dancer and this just goes right by completely unnoticed.

And by the way didn't anyone else find it odd that Neolithic was even in that race today? So you come off a long layoff, finish second to Summer Revolution who then goes onto the grade 1 Kings bishop, meanwhile Pletcher says hey why try a stakes lets just put him back in another one of those allowance races. I can't believe how many people got duped into betting this one. Let's put all the horses in the gate then oh let's back the 10 out then immeadiatly open the gate once he's back in. Tell me how he was nowhere to be found if they were actually trying to win the race. The pick 5 had to look playable to attract more money. Duhhhh

Yeah I might sound crazy but whatever. I don't care.

[menifee]

Originally Posted by cj

The winner got first time Lasix and it mattered. Beyer-Schmeyers anyway

My point is he ran just as good today as he did in the Whitney. The difference was the trips. So I'm not buying the "needs a longer break" stuff. That is the new "cuppy track" excuse for trainers.

I've said my piece on this. Great thing about racing is we all make and back our own opinions. Always fun discussing them.

Respect you greatly, but have to disagree. This was a weak race. Braedster does not want this distance and the other horses were weak G2-G3. Four noses on the wire demonstrates that. Frosted just ran back to his two turn form of his 3 yo campaign and had a rough trip. He's not in the same league as CC or Beholder going a route around two turns. He is the best one turn miler in the country. If I were them, I would go to the BC mile and pray he breaks or stay in NY and run in the Cigar mile.

[Augenj]

Originally Posted by salty

Wow how funny. They fooled all of you, Frosted was never supposed to win the race. Can't you guys see that this was an obvious no show? The Mig of all people even pointed out that he wasn't being warmed up as well as he had been before the Whitney. Also the classic bad break excuse then going widest on the turn to really make it look bad. Can anyone tell me why they whip didn't come out in the stretch? How did this horse finish third by a neck if he was spent? How does the horse that just got the biggest figure ever a couple months ago not win this? The biggest thing that I noticed after the race was how Joel couldn't wipe the smile off his face in the paddock before the next race. Smiling, laughing even when he gets up on his horse he has to bite his top lip to try to hold in the smile. You know he didn't try to win the race. How can you be smiling and laughing after a race like that I mean really. So somebody steals your car and 10 minutes later you are laughing and smiling. No why would you! Only if you knew it was going to get stolen. Everyone up in arms over a rabbit in the sword dancer and this just goes right by completely unnoticed.

And by the way didn't anyone else find it odd that Neolithic was even in that race today? So you come off a long layoff, finish second to Summer Revolution who then goes onto the grade 1 Kings bishop, meanwhile Pletcher says hey why try a stakes lets just put him back in another one of those allowance races. I can't believe how many people got duped into betting this one. Let's put all the horses in the gate then oh let's back the 10 out then immeadiatly open the gate once he's back in. Tell me how he was nowhere to be found if they were actually trying to win the race. The pick 5 had to look playable to attract more money. Duhhhh

Yeah I might sound crazy but whatever. I don't care.

For what it's worth, I agree with you.

[Donttellmeshowme]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

He should've beaten that field if he was really the horse we saw in the last 2 races. There was only one other G1 winner in the field, and the winner had never run a triple-digit Beyer. That is why people are critical of the race.

The only thing I think worth considering going into the BC is the only thing I've yet to hear anyone mention: Whether this horse is truly a different horse with a lot of time between races as KM declares. KM gave him a lot of time off after Dubai and he ran lights out. He gave him 2 months until the next one and he ran the second best race of his career. Then KM had to choose to train him up to the BC off of an almost 3 month break, or put another race into him and then he'd be going into the BC off a more reasonable 2 month break.

Agree he should of blown these horses away based on his last 2 race. Cali Chrome will chew him up and spit him out.

[bobphilo]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Oh, stop it. His number for today is going to tell you zero about how he's going to run in the BCC. And as I said in my first post, his number and a quarter will get you a gumball.

Pay attention. You obviously missed my point that when I said that figures and trips must be considered together. His wide trip means this particular figure was not representative of his ability as indicated by his previous numbers.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by bobphilo

Pay attention. You obviously missed my point that when I said that figures and trips must be considered together. His wide trip means this particular figure was not representative of his ability as indicated by his previous numbers.

I got your point. I disagree with your point. I don't care what his number comes back as. Numbers can be helpful when I don't know the horses. I know graded stakes horses, particularly the ones in the older divisions who I've watched for a time. I can see all I need to know. His number can come back for this race identical to his last race and I'll still tell you that this race wasn't as good as his last race. It is 100% irrelevant to me what number he recorded in this race.