Religious

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

Church is not to be confused with the clergy as it also contains not member of religious order and monks as well.

The fact that there exist some (many) unworthy priests, does not mean that the same applies to all the members of the Church. Although the purpose of the Church is more spiritual than anything else, it still is the most active philanthropic organization on earth, as millions rely on it in a daily base to receive food, medication and education. Still, any related debate shall be structured around its teachings and doctrines and not about the acts of the clergy.

Aaahh...the old "don't do as i do, do as I tell you" argument. How fitting.

No thanks. I don't hold words in much regard. I'd rather look at actions.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

...

No thanks. I don't hold words in much regard. I'd rather look at actions.

You can look at the benevolent actions, those are held up as an example of fine acts of the church's human representatives a sentence before declaring that the not-so-benevolent actions of its human representatives to be irrelevant.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

You can look at the benevolent actions, those are held up as an example of fine acts of the church's human representatives a sentence before declaring that the not-so-benevolent actions of its human representatives to be irrelevant.

Those not-so-benevlolent actions of those supposed representatives of God have hurt large numbers of worshippers over the centuries.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Aaahh...the old "don't do as i do, do as I tell you" argument. How fitting.

No thanks. I don't hold words in much regard. I'd rather look at actions.

How about the actions of the millions of the Saints? Why not take as an example St. Basil or Saint Anthony the Great instead of any corrupted bishop or priest?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

How about the actions of the millions of the Saints? Why not take as an example St. Basil or Saint Anthony the Great instead of any corrupted bishop or priest?

What millions of Saints?
The Catholic Church has supposedly beatified about 10,000.

Upon further investigation it turns out the actual number is 993.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

What millions of Saints?
The Catholic Church has beatified about 10,000.

I believe DeltaLover is a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

How about the actions of the millions of the Saints? Why not take as an example St. Basil or Saint Anthony the Great instead of any corrupted bishop or priest?

Because the full lives of these saints have been largely unknown to us...and we only get to hear the few details that the Church decides to reveal to us. Who really knows what St. Basil or St. Anthony were really all about? But the exploits of the current bishops and priests are more visible...and more difficult to hide.

I mean...look at the life of Jesus, for example. He lived for 33 years...but we only know about 2.5 years of his life. Is there any doubt in your mind that detailed records of the full life of Jesus already exist...but remain hidden?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

I believe DeltaLover is a member of the Greek Orthodox Church.

Then the number of Saints in that Church would be even markedly smaller.

[DeltaLover]

There exist way more than merely 10,000 Saints.

If you only count the victims of the numerous Expulsions during the Roman Period the number will surpass the million easily. Of course not all of the Saints are known to us as they are to God.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

There exist way more than merely 10,000 Saints.

If you only count the victims of the numerous Expulsions during the Roman Period the number will surpass the million easily. Of course not all of the Saints are known to us as they are to God.

Are you saying anyone who was expelled during the Roman Period was given Sainthood?
You've got to be jesting.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Because the full lives of these saints have been largely unknown to us...and we only get to hear the few details that the Church decides to reveal to us. Who really knows what St. Basil or St. Anthony were really all about? But the exploits of the current bishops and priests are more visible...and more difficult to hide.

I mean...look at the life of Jesus, for example. He lived for 33 years...but we only know about 2.5 years of his life. Is there any doubt in your mind that detailed records of the full life of Jesus already exist...but remain hidden?

How about the modern Saints?

Just to name a few:

Saint Nectarios

Saint Eugene Rodionov

Saint Seraphim of Sarov

Saint Porphyrios

Saint Chrysostomos of Smyrna

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Are you saying anyone who was expelled during the Roman Period was given Sainthood?
You've got to be jesting.

I am not saying nothing when it comes to this kind of conversations.. This is what the Church is teaching...

See here also:

http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...arth/38403.htm

[Greyfox]

All sorts of people who were Christians were killed over the years.
That doesn't make them "martyrs" and for sure it doesn't make them Saints.
Most were probably not dying defending their Christian faith.
They probably died defending their own hill of thistles, because it was their hill of thistles.
They just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But we can find millions of Buddhists and Muslims who've been killed over the years too.
That doesn't make them martyrs or Saints either.
They probably died defending their hills of thistles too.

The Church can claim what it wants.
That doesn't make it true.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Actually the one who is lost and beyond help is the fool who wrote....... I found researching atomic and sub-atomic levels of density very enjoyable. The math was interesting, and analogies to human scale objects I thought vivid and convincing enough for boxcar to understand the underlying concepts

But alas I am now thoroughly convinced more than ever--- our junk scientist can not count above his own I.Q.---- which apparently is exceptionally close to his shoe size

Earth calling Hcap. Sir, try to pay attention. We would have no knowledge of interstellar space if it weren't matter and that matter was in motion and that motion in turn produced phenomena. If it weren't for phenomena acting upon our senses we would sense absolutely NOTHING!

So, there's your nothing for you.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

2 Chronicles 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Do you actually have a point to make about the above passage?

Boxcar