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Old 06-01-2018, 01:10 PM   #1
jay68802
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Mandatory Pick 6 Payout?....Not Really

http://www.paulickreport.com/horsepl...pick-6-payout/


Should say mandatory increase in revenue for CDI. Not paying out the whole carry over pool is pure theft. I have spent 2 days looking at the card, anticipating a carry over. Screw them.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:32 PM   #2
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If the only interest you can generate for your track is a carry over pool, IMPROVE YOUR PRODUCT. You have one of the best breeding population in the world, and if you can't put out a good product with that advantage, change what you are doing, it is not working.
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:17 PM   #3
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Why be upset at this? I think it's a great idea, it's giving more chances for bettors to play into pools with lower net takeouts instead of the money just sitting there the rest of the meet. It's a benefit for CD as well, a win-win far as I'm concerned. I've always thought the best of both worlds for players and tracks were if these jackpots were paid out automatically whether it be the end of every month, or once a carry hits something like $500,000.
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:27 PM   #4
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These bets are great. Instead of dying a little bit every day at the track, you get to die all at once.
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Is there no standard anymore?
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Old 06-01-2018, 07:58 PM   #5
jay68802
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Originally Posted by SG4 View Post
Why be upset at this? I think it's a great idea, it's giving more chances for bettors to play into pools with lower net takeouts instead of the money just sitting there the rest of the meet. It's a benefit for CD as well, a win-win far as I'm concerned. I've always thought the best of both worlds for players and tracks were if these jackpots were paid out automatically whether it be the end of every month, or once a carry hits something like $500,000.
Do you think Crookhill Downs is doing this for the player? They are doing it because on Sunday it gives them a extra $45,000 in take out. How would you feel to be the only player to hit this bet on Saturday and have the $300,000.00 not paid to you. As for more chances, you can play this bet every day. You have plenty of chances.

Pay the bets automatically? That is why when the bet started, there is a mandatory payout at the end of the meet. Wake up, Crookhill does not want to loose the takeout. It is that simple, instead of starting over and trying to carry a small pool till it builds, they want to keep their revenue, and screw the players.

Nothing but a money grab.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
Do you think Crookhill Downs is doing this for the player? They are doing it because on Sunday it gives them a extra $45,000 in take out. How would you feel to be the only player to hit this bet on Saturday and have the $300,000.00 not paid to you. As for more chances, you can play this bet every day. You have plenty of chances.

Pay the bets automatically? That is why when the bet started, there is a mandatory payout at the end of the meet. Wake up, Crookhill does not want to loose the takeout. It is that simple, instead of starting over and trying to carry a small pool till it builds, they want to keep their revenue, and screw the players.

Nothing but a money grab.
If there is a single p6 ticket on Saturday the entire carryover will be payed out, if multiple tickets then the 300k of the pool is divided.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:57 PM   #7
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If there is a single p6 ticket on Saturday the entire carryover will be payed out, if multiple tickets then the 300k of the pool is divided.
You are correct, my mistake.

Still does not change the fact that it is the continued take out on the $300,000.00 that they want. Getting $45,000+ a day instead of $4,500.00+ a day while the pot rebuilds. Like I said before, just a money grab.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:55 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jay68802 View Post
Do you think Crookhill Downs is doing this for the player? They are doing it because on Sunday it gives them a extra $45,000 in take out. How would you feel to be the only player to hit this bet on Saturday and have the $300,000.00 not paid to you. As for more chances, you can play this bet every day. You have plenty of chances.

Pay the bets automatically? That is why when the bet started, there is a mandatory payout at the end of the meet. Wake up, Crookhill does not want to loose the takeout. It is that simple, instead of starting over and trying to carry a small pool till it builds, they want to keep their revenue, and screw the players.

Nothing but a money grab.

I don't understand your thinking on this on a number of levels, and already it's shown you had some misconceptions about what happens if there's a single ticket winner on Saturday, but that didn't change your annoyance.



First off I don't think it's a money grab by CD, but I do think it's smart business for them, because this actually is good for the player which means more revenue for them. Who knows, between lowering their pick 5 takeout this meet & the way they've handled their jackpot 6 so far this season, I'm almost willing to think someone who is clued in to gamblers might have a voice at the table finally around there.



The more chances to play this bet I was referring to were the more chances you can play with a large guaranteed carryover as part of the pool, no matter if it's a single winner. You can indeed play this bet every day for the very unlikely chance of taking down the entire pool, but I think players would appreciate a pool thrown in here & there that essentially reduces the takeout to zero, while still giving you that chance to take down a single score. Like I said before, it's a win-win.



Also I don't understand what you mean about CD not wanting to lose the takeout through this move? If anything, as I think Gulfstream's large rainbow carries show, as the pot builds the pools build, thus making it less and less likely to be paid out in full. By cutting the jackpot pool in half, CD will actually lose some day to day revenue on this bet & possibly be more likely to have the jackpot wiped out before the last day of the meet, which is of course the ideal date to have the jackpot carry into. So this move I think is a smart hedge for them where they are guaranteed at least a big pool on Saturday, and they'll hope the jackpot continues after that.


Overall, IMO every track in the country with a jackpot wager should emulate CD's formula. With a 15% takeout, only 10% carried each day and a 20c base wager, this is the best pick 6 value in the country. I can't pick a winner to save my life at CD lately but I am honestly thrilled with their format, as it makes this bet playable every single day whether or not you're aiming to take down the jackpot.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:14 AM   #9
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http://http://blog.horseplayersassoc...k-6-rules.html
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by SG4 View Post
I don't understand your thinking on this on a number of levels, and already it's shown you had some misconceptions about what happens if there's a single ticket winner on Saturday, but that didn't change your annoyance.



First off I don't think it's a money grab by CD, but I do think it's smart business for them, because this actually is good for the player which means more revenue for them. Who knows, between lowering their pick 5 takeout this meet & the way they've handled their jackpot 6 so far this season, I'm almost willing to think someone who is clued in to gamblers might have a voice at the table finally around there.

The only voice at the table was CDI. You are partly right about it being "smart business" in the fact that CDI gets to keep on getting their %15 of the $300,000 instead of paying that money out.



The more chances to play this bet I was referring to were the more chances you can play with a large guaranteed carryover as part of the pool, no matter if it's a single winner. You can indeed play this bet every day for the very unlikely chance of taking down the entire pool, but I think players would appreciate a pool thrown in here & there that essentially reduces the takeout to zero, while still giving you that chance to take down a single score. Like I said before, it's a win-win.

There is no guaranteed carry over or pool size.

Also I don't understand what you mean about CD not wanting to lose the takeout through this move? If anything, as I think Gulfstream's large rainbow carries show, as the pot builds the pools build, thus making it less and less likely to be paid out in full. By cutting the jackpot pool in half, CD will actually lose some day to day revenue on this bet & possibly be more likely to have the jackpot wiped out before the last day of the meet, which is of course the ideal date to have the jackpot carry into. So this move I think is a smart hedge for them where they are guaranteed at least a big pool on Saturday, and they'll hope the jackpot continues after that.

If they would pay the whole pool out, like they should, their pool on Sunday would start at $0. CDI's take out would be %15 of the pool for that day, around $30,000, or $4,500.00. Instead it will be guaranteed that CDI will get $45,000.00 + as their cut.


Overall, IMO every track in the country with a jackpot wager should emulate CD's formula. With a 15% takeout, only 10% carried each day and a 20c base wager, this is the best pick 6 value in the country. I can't pick a winner to save my life at CD lately but I am honestly thrilled with their format, as it makes this bet playable every single day whether or not you're aiming to take down the jackpot.
I agree with the low take out part.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:34 AM   #11
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i have a question regarding
s hypothetical in a jackpot bet

lets say you make a ticket with various combinations. you come to a race where you originally had 4 selections. one of them already the post time favorite. one of the other horses gets lose and runs off and gets scratched. ultimately the favorite wins and yo9u now have 2 tickets because of the scratch. you hit the other 6 races and nobody else has 6 for 6. did you just lose your rainbow jackpot qualification because you got rewarded with the post time favorite?
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by lamboguy View Post
i have a question regarding
s hypothetical in a jackpot bet

lets say you make a ticket with various combinations. you come to a race where you originally had 4 selections. one of them already the post time favorite. one of the other horses gets lose and runs off and gets scratched. ultimately the favorite wins and yo9u now have 2 tickets because of the scratch. you hit the other 6 races and nobody else has 6 for 6. did you just lose your rainbow jackpot qualification because you got rewarded with the post time favorite?
This is copied from CD p6 rules.

20) In the Unique Pick-6, if a single patron ends up with the only winning ticket but has more than one winning wager on that ticket, regardless of how it occurred, that patron will not be eligible for the Unique Pick-6 Jackpot carryover.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy View Post
i have a question regarding
s hypothetical in a jackpot bet

lets say you make a ticket with various combinations. you come to a race where you originally had 4 selections. one of them already the post time favorite. one of the other horses gets lose and runs off and gets scratched. ultimately the favorite wins and yo9u now have 2 tickets because of the scratch. you hit the other 6 races and nobody else has 6 for 6. did you just lose your rainbow jackpot qualification because you got rewarded with the post time favorite?
Yes you get screwed.

Beulah Park when they started this bet would refund ANY scratch.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:01 PM   #14
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Got sort of a shock this morning, I did not realize that CDI has been doing this for a long time now.

Date........ Seed Pool... Total Pool... Carry Over... Rev W Co... Rev WO CO... Extra in Rev
5/11/2018... 385131.00... 96661.00... 481792.00... 393347.00... 72268.80... 14499.15... 57769.65
5/12/2018... 393347.00... 154846.00... 548193.00... 406475.00... 82228.95... 23226.90... 59002.05
5/13/2018... 406475.00... 150678.00... 557153.00... 419279.00... 83572.95... 22601.70... 60971.25
5/17/2018... 419279.00... 79077.00... 498356.00... 425999.00... 74753.40... 11861.55... 62891.85
5/18/2018... 425999.00... 84919.00... 510918.00... 433216.00... 76637.70... 12737.85... 63899.85
5/19/2018... 433216.00... 114816.00... 548032.00... 442974.00... 82204.80... 17222.40... 64982.40
5/20/2018... 442974.00... 209628.00... 652602.00... 460789.00... 97890.30... 31444.20... 66446.10
5/24/2018... 460789.00... 122115.00... 582904.00... 471168.00... 87435.60... 18317.25... 69118.35
5/25/2018... 471168.00... 151675.00... 622843.00... 484060.00... 93426.45... 22751.25... 70675.20
5/26/2018... 484060.00... 178058.00... 662118.00... 636166.00... 99317.70... 26708.70... 72609.00
5/27/2018... 636166.00... 245032.00... 881198.00... 656990.00... 132179.70... 36754.80... 95424.90
5/28/2018... 656990.00... 182320.00... 839310.00... 672846.00... 125896.50... 27348.00... 98548.50
5/31/2018... 672846.00... 142462.00... 815308.00... 684595.00... 122296.20... 21369.30... 100926.90
6/1/2018.... 684595.00... 131013.00... 815608.00... 695728.00... 122341.20... 19651.95... 102689.25

Since May 11th, when this pool started, with "seed" money of $385,131.00. the pools and carryover for every day.

Crookhill Downs has recieved $102,268.25 in extra takeout from handle for "seeding" the pool. If you are a stockholder in CDI, before you get on the phone and start calling, wondering why CDI is risking $385,131.00 to fund a pool that could be won on any day. Do not worry, this is not CDI's money that they are using. This money was "donated" by the "winning" players on May 7th, who look a lower payout on their tickets, so CDI could do this generous pool. But don't worry, the "winning" players today get to do the same thing.

And Crookhill Downs will get more takeout from it.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:03 PM   #15
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May 12
"Churchill Downs Pick 6 Carryover with Mandatory Payout

The Derby's over but the Spring Meet action continues this Thursday at Churchill Downs with Twilight Thursdays and a BIG Pick 6 carryover worth $343,154.

Thursday's carryover is also a mandatory payout pool, meaning all players with the most winners on a single ticket will take down the carryover, plus whatever is bet into the pool on Thursday."

From the Twinspires website, notice they are advertising that they will pay the whole pool including carryover, even though they have not paid out the full carryover since 2016.
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