Epidemiologist: Why Lockdowns Are The Wrong Policy

[hcap]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

It's laughable how the media treats Cuomo when he is single handedly responsible for so many deaths. Then they give him credit for getting it under control when NYC and the surrounding suburbs have a 30-35% infection rate. He already killed a lot of the most vulnerable and a large percentage of the rest of us has already been exposed or is immune. That's why it slowed. The media is full of pinheads or liars. Take your pick. I'll also grant you it could be both.

Originally Posted by tucker6

More than 40% of all deaths across the USA are nursing home related. That's 80,000+. An interesting fact is that NY is the only state that refuses to publish nursing home covid death data. If a republican did that, there would literally be riots in the streets over it. I don't know how some of the lefties on here sleep at night being a silent partner to genocide.

Again with this nonswens! All over the world nursibng homes were a major problem. Cuomo and NYS did better than many other states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ing-homes.html

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by hcap

Again with this nonswens! All over the world nursibng homes were a major problem. Cuomo and NYS did better than many other states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ing-homes.html

I clicked on your link Harry, which I rarely do. Don't you find it odd that on the tally by individual nursing home, that NY is the only state where total cases and total deaths per nursing home are the same? 82 cases and 82 deaths!! 68 cases and 68 deaths!! Seems odd doesn't it? Seems made up doesn't it? Or maybe undercounted in some way. It makes me want to know more about nursing home deaths in NY. How about you?

As to your statement above, it's curious that we knew about nursing homes being a "major problem" in late January when that Seattle nursing home had their meltdown. Why then did Cuomo issue an executive order to combine old people with covid patients in mid March, well after we knew about the "major problem"? Isn't that the very definition of negligence? Of manslaughter? Of genocide?

So you go on believing NYS did better than most, while many thousands of people mourn for their lost loved ones whose death was directly linked to Cuomo's policy. It's pathetic and anyone who attempts to brush this under the rug like you are complicit in murder.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by hcap

Aren't you aware of the thousands of deaths avoided by many countries particularly the Asian ones and Australia and New Zealand? That's the same faulty reasoning maintaining mitigation measures only prevent overwhelming hospitals.

I have pointed out to you, you are a "day trader" You ignore larger epidemiological trends. Spikes in the first wave are expected as well as a second wave. That distinction between spike and wave is not yet clear, 7 months in.

The data is telling you Sweden isn't getting the big 2nd wave that most of Europe is seeing now...didn't you read the data in the AP news story from a few days ago? They directly compared to the current numbers to Sweden and Sweden was far below all of them.

Those "deaths avoided" are NOT avoided....they were merely DELAYED.

NO MASKS

NO LOCKDOWNS

DATA FROM EUROPEAN CDC (last two weeks):

SPAIN = 292.2 new cases per 100k
FRANCE = 172.1 new cases per 100k
UK = 61.8 new cases per 100k
DENMARK = 69.2 new cases per 100k

SWEDEN =30.3 new cases per 100k (NO MASKS, NO LOCKDOWNS)

https://apnews.com/a01ddfa2e8ef839b2ee05e2cbcd63169

[davew]

but isn't delaying deaths, killing the economy, prolonging the fear better for gaining more democrat power?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by davew

but isn't delaying deaths, killing the economy, prolonging the fear better for gaining more democrat power?

Hah! Of course! I knew there had to be a huge plus side in all this somewhere. It's all about the power.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

The data is telling you Sweden isn't getting the big 2nd wave that most of Europe is seeing now...didn't you read the data in the AP news story from a few days ago? They directly compared to the current numbers to Sweden and Sweden was far below all of them.

Those "deaths avoided" are NOT avoided....they were merely DELAYED.

NO MASKS

NO LOCKDOWNS

DATA FROM EUROPEAN CDC (last two weeks):

SPAIN = 292.2 new cases per 100k
FRANCE = 172.1 new cases per 100k
UK = 61.8 new cases per 100k
DENMARK = 69.2 new cases per 100k

SWEDEN =30.3 new cases per 100k (NO MASKS, NO LOCKDOWNS)

https://apnews.com/a01ddfa2e8ef839b2ee05e2cbcd63169

200,000,000 have died in the USA from Covid so it's too late to adopt Sweden's strategy anyway. We're almost extinct and by the third debate we almost assuredly will be if Joe doesn't have his teleprompter.

[woodtoo]

Originally Posted by tucker6

I clicked on your link Harry, which I rarely do. Don't you find it odd that on the tally by individual nursing home, that NY is the only state where total cases and total deaths per nursing home are the same? 82 cases and 82 deaths!! 68 cases and 68 deaths!! Seems odd doesn't it? Seems made up doesn't it? Or maybe undercounted in some way. It makes me want to know more about nursing home deaths in NY. How about you?

As to your statement above, it's curious that we knew about nursing homes being a "major problem" in late January when that Seattle nursing home had their meltdown. Why then did Cuomo issue an executive order to combine old people with covid patients in mid March, well after we knew about the "major problem"? Isn't that the very definition of negligence? Of manslaughter? Of genocide?

So you go on believing NYS did better than most, while many thousands of people mourn for their lost loved ones whose death was directly linked to Cuomo's policy. It's pathetic and anyone who attempts to brush this under the rug like you are complicit in murder.

He knows no shame.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by tucker6

I clicked on your link Harry, which I rarely do. Don't you find it odd that on the tally by individual nursing home, that NY is the only state where total cases and total deaths per nursing home are the same? 82 cases and 82 deaths!! 68 cases and 68 deaths!! Seems odd doesn't it? Seems made up doesn't it? Or maybe undercounted in some way. It makes me want to know more about nursing home deaths in NY. How about you?

As to your statement above, it's curious that we knew about nursing homes being a "major problem" in late January when that Seattle nursing home had their meltdown. Why then did Cuomo issue an executive order to combine old people with covid patients in mid March, well after we knew about the "major problem"? Isn't that the very definition of negligence? Of manslaughter? Of genocide?

So you go on believing NYS did better than most, while many thousands of people mourn for their lost loved ones whose death was directly linked to Cuomo's policy. It's pathetic and anyone who attempts to brush this under the rug like you are complicit in murder.

Whatever you are complaining about first implies the NYT is lying to you Trumpites. Again!

I will double check later.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by hcap

Whatever you are complaining about first implies the NYT is lying to you Trumpites. Again!

I will double check later.

What do you mean you'll double check? It's your link. I assumed that you would have read your own link before posting. I'm not saying the NYT lied at all, even though we both know that do it in every story in that rag. I'm saying that NYS is lying by purposefully withholding damning evidence of a gross breach of public trust bordering on genocide. So you go double check your own source and get back to me as to whether you will suspend your belief system yet again so that you can support murder.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

The data is telling you Sweden isn't getting the big 2nd wave that most of Europe is seeing now...didn't you read the data in the AP news story from a few days ago? They directly compared to the current numbers to Sweden and Sweden was far below all of them.

Those "deaths avoided" are NOT avoided....they were merely DELAYED.

NO MASKS

NO LOCKDOWNS

DATA FROM EUROPEAN CDC (last two weeks):

SPAIN = 292.2 new cases per 100k
FRANCE = 172.1 new cases per 100k
UK = 61.8 new cases per 100k
DENMARK = 69.2 new cases per 100k

SWEDEN =30.3 new cases per 100k (NO MASKS, NO LOCKDOWNS)

https://apnews.com/a01ddfa2e8ef839b2ee05e2cbcd63169

Do you remember touting first Mexico, then the UK at the beginning of the pandemic praising their lower numbers? I told you then, as I am telling you now pandemics do not hit all locals at the same time. And we do not know if there is a second wave or spikes in the first. You are a "day trader" looking at only short term trends and additionally ignoring all the other countries, particularity the Asian counties who have consistently dealt better with the virus.

Fatalities, hospitalizes much less than 1/10th of the non Asian Countries such as

Singapore
Taiwan
Japan
South Kore
Vietnam
New Zealand
Auistralia


A lot of Masks
Strict Lockdowns
Other mitigation measures.

Tom borrow your nonsense, those counties "laughed at Sweden"

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by hcap

Do you remember touting first Mexico, then the UK at the beginning of the pandemic praising their lower numbers? I told you then, as I am telling you now pandemics do not hit all locals at the same time. And we do not know if there is a second wave or spikes in the first. You are a "day trader" looking at only short term trends and additionally ignoring all the other countries, particularity the Asian counties who have consistently dealt better with the virus.

Fatalities, hospitalizes much less than 1/10th of the non Asian Countries such as

Singapore
Taiwan
Japan
South Kore
Vietnam
New Zealand
Auistralia


A lot of Masks
Strict Lockdowns
Other mitigation measures.

Tom borrow your nonsense, those counties "laughed at Sweden"

I never touted anything about Mexico or the UK. I don't recall mentioning Mexico in any capacity related to the virus.

I'm the one that's been telling you that it's going to hit everywhere regardless of whether you lock down or not. The lockdowns are just changing the timing. They are useful for keeping hospitals and ICUs from being overwhelmed.

Asia is somewhat unique because they've had exposure to SARs and some other corona viruses that did not hit the west hard. That may be helping with immunity in those countries, but it's just a matter of time before it hits there too unless they want to lock down for all time and turn their economies back to the stone age.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by hcap

Again with this nonswens! All over the world nursibng homes were a major problem. Cuomo and NYS did better than many other states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ing-homes.html

NY's percentage of deaths at nursing homes is lower than some states because NYS's overall infection rate is so much higher than most states (30%-35% infected in NYC, Long Island, Westchester etc..). The deaths from non nursing home patients are also very high. So the nursing home patients make up a smaller percentage than some states. But absolute numbers are very high. Also, some of the information about nursing home deaths in NY is being withheld because Cuomo doesn't want to let the public know his poor decision making lead to a massive number of unnecessary deaths.

The NY Times is just an extension of democrat party. It's not a news organization. Using the Times for a source is like asking a coal miner in West Virginia for information on global temperatures. You can't take it seriously.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

NY's percentage of deaths at nursing homes is lower than some states because NYS's overall infection rate is so much higher than most states (30%-35% infected in NYC, Long Island, Westchester etc..). The deaths from non nursing home patients are also very high. So the nursing home patients make up a smaller percentage than some states. But absolute numbers are very high. Also, some of the information about nursing home deaths in NY is being withheld because Cuomo doesn't want to let the public know his poor decision making lead to a massive number of unnecessary deaths.

[b]The NY Times is just an extension of democrat party. It's not a news organization. Using the Times for a source is like asking a coal miner in West Virginia for information on global temperatures. You can't take it seriously.[/v]

The coal miner, though, would in all probability be closer to the truth than any loony enviro whacko would be.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I never touted anything about Mexico or the UK. I don't recall mentioning Mexico in any capacity related to the virus.

I'm the one that's been telling you that it's going to hit everywhere regardless of whether you lock down or not. The lockdowns are just changing the timing. They are useful for keeping hospitals and ICUs from being overwhelmed.

Asia is somewhat unique because they've had exposure to SARs and some other corona viruses that did not hit the west hard. That may be helping with immunity in those countries, but it's just a matter of time before it hits there too unless they want to lock down for all time and turn their economies back to the stone age.

My message was to PA not you. He touted Mexico and the UK early on when they took a laisez faire hands off approach.

The lockddowns and other mitigation measures change fatalities and suffering. Don't believe me, look up the Asian countries.

Active efforts to mitigate the virus, are sound epidemiological principles They are way more then just preventing overwhelming hospitals. Reduce total viral load and everything else follows.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by hcap

My message was to PA not you. He touted Mexico and the UK early on when they took a laisez faire hands off approach.

The lockddowns and other mitigation measures change fatalities and suffering. Don't believe me, look up the Asian countries.

Active efforts to mitigate the virus, are sound epidemiological principles They are way more then just preventing overwhelming hospitals. Reduce total viral load and everything else follows.

Did you have a chance to look at the study you posted and can you provide your opinion on why NYS lacks honesty and transparency when it comes to nursing home deaths? Is Cuomo culpable in any way for their deaths? Did the govt in NY make a mistake sending covid positive people back to nursing homes?