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06-25-2018, 11:18 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incoming
They opened their doors today....just displaying how tariffs effect large economies.
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They were opening their doors before tariffs were even a thing.
This proves nothing on the tariff front. It shows a steel mill that had closed before tariffs also planned to reopen... before tariffs.
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06-26-2018, 11:23 AM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baystater
Posts: 3,484
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President Trump isn't taking the news lightly. In several tweets through Tuesday morning, the president criticized—and warned—the company. "A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never!" "Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end - they surrendered, they quit!" Trump also accused Harley of using the tariffs being imposed by the EU "as an excuse" to justify the decision to ramp up production outside the US. "Harley must know that they won't be able to sell back into U.S. without paying a big tax!"
Last edited by jimmyb; 06-26-2018 at 11:25 AM.
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06-26-2018, 02:34 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 265
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Regardless of what side of the political aisle you are on, everyone should be able to agree in this day and age that it is proven that trade wars and tariffs do not work. You may help one industry but you hurt others. This story is a good example of this.
http://www.kait8.com/story/38482282/...oplar-bluff-mo
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06-26-2018, 02:43 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiguy
Regardless of what side of the political aisle you are on, everyone should be able to agree in this day and age that it is proven that trade wars and tariffs do not work. You may help one industry but you hurt others. This story is a good example of this.....
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OK. So your solution is to sit back and pay whatever tariffs are imposed on the US goods without fighting back?
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06-26-2018, 02:56 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
OK. So your solution is to sit back and pay whatever tariffs are imposed on the US goods without fighting back?
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If the goal is the elimination of tariffs you shouldn't start by launching them...
Like other things this is a shoot first/aim later tactic by the President. He's cited a bazillion different reasons for the tariffs but very few actually hold water. The ones that do you would solve a completely different way from others.
We've been given trade deficits, national security, existing unfair trade, subsidies, IP theft, etc. etc.
Secondly, we have our own tariffs. The often cited one around here is the EU tariff of 10% on cars. We have a 2.5% tariff on cars and 25% tariff on all trucks, vans, and SUVS. So here is how it works...
Ford builds their cars for the European market in Europe. BMW builds their cars for the American market in America... The tariff is really much ado about nothing as most popular cars in America aren't what sells in Europe and vice versa...
Ford has no interest in making the S Max in the United States. It would have to ship it Europe anyway as no one here wants it.
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06-27-2018, 06:19 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
It's the end of the world as we know it.
And I feel fine.
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When you get trashed by the WSJ, do you dismiss them as simply RINOs, or do you pay attention?
Wall Street Journal Slams Trump for Driving Harley Davidson Jobs to Europe: Kiss the Midterm Elections Goodbye
https://www.alternet.org/wall-street...ctions-goodbye
In a terse editorial by the editors, the staid business-oriented paper held up the announcement that stalwart American manufacturer Harley-Davidson would be moving jobs to Europe -- saying American workers are the "biggest losers" under Trump's policies.
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06-27-2018, 09:18 AM
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#37
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gelding
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,883
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06-27-2018, 09:30 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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That Tweet is fake...
What isn't fake is we have a sitting President telling companies how to do business and attacking them when its administrations policies force them to react as any proper CEO would...
Fascism folks... this is EXACTLY what it looks like.
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06-27-2018, 10:01 AM
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#39
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 104
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06-27-2018, 10:02 AM
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#40
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Fascism folks... this is EXACTLY what it looks like.
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HAH!
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06-27-2018, 10:15 AM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
HAH!
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Look it up.
Quote:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce,[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I before it spread to other European countries.[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism and anarchism, fascism is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.[5][6][7][4][8][9]
Fascists saw World War I as a revolution that brought massive changes to the nature of war, society, the state and technology. The advent of total war and the total mass mobilization of society had broken down the distinction between civilians and combatants. A "military citizenship" arose in which all citizens were involved with the military in some manner during the war.[10][11] The war had resulted in the rise of a powerful state capable of mobilizing millions of people to serve on the front lines and providing economic production and logistics to support them, as well as having unprecedented authority to intervene in the lives of citizens.[10][11]
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[12] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[12] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[13][14][15][16] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[17]
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Bolded for ya...
Whole lot of it going around these days...
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-27-2018 at 10:17 AM.
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06-27-2018, 10:17 AM
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#42
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,542
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HAH! again
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06-27-2018, 10:18 AM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
HAH! again
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Brilliant response...
You must think I'm referring to Nazi's... I'm not... I'm referring to Fascists...
They are not one in the same... this type of stuff is contained in books though so that rules out you folks. 
I could attribute a tweet to literally every sentence of my copy and paste...
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-27-2018 at 10:27 AM.
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06-27-2018, 10:24 AM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
HAH! again
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You could participate or throw out another lovely "hah" comment... or...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I hope we can all agree I haven't posted much about anything tariff related.
Before that gets pinned on me also.
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What do you think Harley should have done? Be forced to eat $2000 per unit or move production?
Inquiring minds want to know. You claim to be "moderate" but around here that's pretty relative as suddenly everyone's experts on Harley's balance sheet except its CEO.
Do tell Mr. Moderate... which side of this are you on? Do you support Harley's decision to continue to make profits or should they have sacrificed for the "greater national good?"
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 06-27-2018 at 10:29 AM.
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06-27-2018, 10:28 AM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: donkeys ride from ASD
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
If the goal is the elimination of tariffs you shouldn't start by launching them...
Like other things this is a shoot first/aim later tactic by the President. He's cited a bazillion different reasons for the tariffs but very few actually hold water. The ones that do you would solve a completely different way from others.
We've been given trade deficits, national security, existing unfair trade, subsidies, IP theft, etc. etc.
Secondly, we have our own tariffs. The often cited one around here is the EU tariff of 10% on cars. We have a 2.5% tariff on cars and 25% tariff on all trucks, vans, and SUVS. So here is how it works...
Ford builds their cars for the European market in Europe. BMW builds their cars for the American market in America... The tariff is really much ado about nothing as most popular cars in America aren't what sells in Europe and vice versa...
Ford has no interest in making the S Max in the United States. It would have to ship it Europe anyway as no one here wants it.
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Sometimes you fight fire with fire. This President has a plan well above our pay grade, he has thought out U.S. trade for 40 plus years.
You nor I have his game plan watch and learn.
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