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Old 11-19-2013, 06:12 PM   #16
Stillriledup
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Originally Posted by shouldacoulda
Stop charging for parking and reduce the admission. Every time I see a grandstand for the most part, at almost every track, it's empty anyway. How much would they really lose? If you want more butts in the seats you have to give people a reason to go.
There have been plenty of times where i've NOT gone to the track just because i didnt want to pay parking and admission. If i had free passes or free parking, i would go, otherwise, its "bad value" when you take into consideration gas, wear and tear on the car, odds of being in an accident, odds of getting a traffic ticket, etc.

You can't get a traffic ticket or in an accident if you bet from home. You're right, they need to give people incentive to start up the ole pontiac.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:22 PM   #17
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Let's play what if...

What if, for the sake of argument, PARX really did decide to run a 10% Takeout Tuesdays promotion?

To my way of thinking they would be the perfect track to try something like this. They already have a massive slots subsidy to fall back on.

So why not take a calculated risk and try a little innovation to create some brand recognition and build up the racing side of their business?

Methinks a promotion like this might have enough appeal to players (and be unheard of enough) that it just might catch on.

Since we're doing hypotheticals here: What if, for the sake of argument they decide to go after this in a serious way?.... radio, newspaper, billboards, etc. in their immediate metro area... plus banner ads at every horse racing related site all over the web.

You're right of course SRU...

If you are managing a brick and mortar outlet in direct competition with them, one of your options to try and thwart them is a decision to not let your customers see their track signal.

But what if they plan for this possibility during the early stages of their campaign? What if they sweeten the pot and offer a "deal" to every ADW and every brick and mortar to carry their Tuesday signal (because let's face it what else is running on Tuesday afternoons?) and as part of the package agree to cut their signal fee (Tuesdays only) down to next to nothing in hopes of enticing you and others like you to let their racing product be seen as widely each Tues as possible?

If you don't take their Tuesday signal - and their idea catches on despite your best efforts to stop it - you are going to end up with egg on your face.

Methinks if a track like PARX really did want to create some brand recognition and build up the racing side of their business...

Tuesdays are there for the taking.



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Old 11-19-2013, 06:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup

You can't get in an accident if you bet from home.
Unless the wife attacks you with a frying pan when she sees how much you've lost.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:33 PM   #19
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Free admission is definitely not the answer(It will become a homeless shelter)they must charge something and for the price of admission you should get a free program or a discount on DRF to make sure the attendees are there to wager and not for the heat or AC .Free parking is OK. Walk around aqueduct and see what free admission draws.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Unless the wife attacks you with a frying pan when she sees how much you've lost.
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:03 PM   #21
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If Oracle's Larry Ellison can turn something as infinitely boring as sailing into a edge-of-your-seat spectator sport (last America's Cup), surely horse racing has a shot at reclaiming its former glory. All it takes is one person with a vision and enough money to realize it.

Horse racing has far greater longevity than any of the currently popular sports. Smack in the middle of ancient Rome, a mere stone's throw from the Colosseum (equivalent of a modern football stadium), was a huge race track. Like boxing, another timeless sport, horse racing was extremely popular during the radio era; but it failed to make the transition to television. There's only one reason for that: lack of vision; inability to sell a high quality product.

Last edited by Dark Horse; 11-19-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:08 PM   #22
Stillriledup
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Originally Posted by thaskalos
Unless the wife attacks you with a frying pan when she sees how much you've lost.


WOW.
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
If i'm the manager of SRU downs and i take full card simulcasting on Tuesdays and Parx decides that all takeouts on Tues are 10%, why would i want my customers to bet on that track instead of some other track offering full takeout rates? If Parx lowers their take on Tues to 10%, they are essentially lowering MY cut of the profits, even though SRU downs may be 100s of miles away from Parx.

Parx gets the "Credit" for having a low takeout and yet i'm the one at SRU downs who will feel the pinch if my customers are betting their money on Parx races instead of some other track who's not lowering their takeout.

I would have to consider pulling Parx from my menu on Tuesdays because having them up there will cost me money.
Come on. Parx outhandles every other track on Tuesday by a lot. Your business would go down by quite a bit if you dropped Parx from your betting menu. Besides, your customers would probably be none too happy about Parx being unavailable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pat
Free admission is definitely not the answer(It will become a homeless shelter)they must charge something and for the price of admission you should get a free program or a discount on DRF to make sure the attendees are there to wager and not for the heat or AC .Free parking is OK. Walk around aqueduct and see what free admission draws.
I remember reading somewhere (I think it was here, actually) that a good idea would be to have free admission up to a certain time (like 7 PM), then charge a small fee to get it, in order to keep the really rowdy folks out.

Two things I would like to throw in in terms of a local fanbase:

1. Casinos run shuttle buses for seniors' groups and assisted living places a few times a week. Why can't racetracks do that? If you gave everyone a $2 betting voucher to start and a coupon for a free menu item, you'd probably get a nice customer base going.

2. Every track should have a replay show on their local sports channel, along with a handicapping show (a la "Talkin' Horses) that would air a few hours before the first race. It would be nice for non-racing fans to have a chance to see people intelligently discussing the races.
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Last edited by andtheyreoff; 11-19-2013 at 07:25 PM. Reason: changed word choice
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P

What if, for the sake of argument, PARX really did decide to run a 10% Takeout Tuesdays promotion?
rather than fiddling with takeout on certain days or bets, i think giving on track rebates is a better idea. imo, 10% flat would be a great first step in turning this game around.

(1) you wouldn't encounter nearly as much resistance from other tracks. you're paying everything out of your cut and they don't have to make any adjustments.

(2) the rebate (available the next day) is TANGIBLE.... ie players can actually see this money accumulating in their accounts day by day.

(3) it automatically brings bettors back to the track. example: joe bets $1,000 on thursday and loses all of his money but the $100 rebate will be available for him on friday...... he has something to come back for.

real life: i live by a racino that doesn't understand these concepts, but yet i still go to a.c. (despite the 3 hr drive and tolls) because i get free rooms and have hundreds of dollars in total rewards.
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by proximity
rather than fiddling with takeout on certain days or bets, i think giving on track rebates is a better idea. imo, 10% flat would be a great first step in turning this game around.

(1) you wouldn't encounter nearly as much resistance from other tracks. you're paying everything out of your cut and they don't have to make any adjustments.

(2) the rebate (available the next day) is TANGIBLE.... ie players can actually see this money accumulating in their accounts day by day.

(3) it automatically brings bettors back to the track. example: joe bets $1,000 on thursday and loses all of his money but the $100 rebate will be available for him on friday...... he has something to come back for.

real life: i live by a racino that doesn't understand these concepts, but yet i still go to a.c. (despite the 3 hr drive and tolls) because i get free rooms and have hundreds of dollars in total rewards.
If you want to come to SRU Downs and bet at least a few grand a day, ill make it worth your while...you know what i'm getting at?
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:48 PM   #26
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As far as entrance and parking fees I certainly think they should be imposed. As a general direction the race track industry should shift its profit making from takeout only to admissions and general attendance fees. I would be more than happy to pay a high ticket to enter the premises knowing that the take out will be more reasonable and more important if there are bookmakers providing fixed odds based on their assessments.

Some of my suggestions are the following:

Less racing is certainly another factor that should seriously be considered if we want horse betting to regain its status as the king of all betting activities. Equally important is the rethinking of the way races are written. I would vote for a national handicap system, assigning weights to horses similarly to the Australian system.

Eventually, claiming races should be marginalized to consist a very small fraction of the pie which should be dominated by allowance type races where weights will be assigned based in winnings. Two and three years old should go by not winners of 1,2 3 4 while as the horse matures it should enter to a national graded classification, like A, B, C, D, E, F. After a win his weight should increase while after a loss it should decrease.

In parallel of course we should have stakes races where weight is just assigned by age and sex, giving the ability to classic horses to compete with reasonable weights.

Horses who reached their fifth year and still have not broken their maidens should be banned from racing while starter allowances should completely be eliminated as they provide the most unbalanced fields.

Steward reports should be very comprehensive containing every possible information, like bleeding, racing trouble, equipment losses, weak ride and anything related.

There should be implied a maximum number of horses per horse (like in Japan for example) while the existing weight allowances will give more chances to bug boys (in Europe is common to have weight differences in the same race up to 17 kgr or more, which is approximately 30 pounds).

Major transformations like from last to first in less than 20 days should be investigated if no excuse will be described in the steward reports.

A trainer who is caught with illegal medication more than three times should be banned for life while suspicious rides should be examined by a special committee with potential harsh penalties for the jockey and possibly the trainer of the horse.

Historical data should be available for free to the public for non commercial purposes.

Less gimmics, with the intention of one long daily horizontal pick (like p5 or p6) with very low cost per unit which will be available nationally and offered by every lotto store. Ideally this can become a national bet combining the main circuits of the period.

Apply one, low take out rate across all bets while allowing private bookmakers to operate both on the track and through the internet.

That's for now, although the list can grow much longer.. (Of course I know that nothing like this is going to happen but... dreaming is good sometimes!)
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:59 PM   #27
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Jeff, even Mountaineer can do something like that...they have slots and they have the only track running at this moment, the only one. Parx is only competing with Finger Lakes for the most part on Tuesdays, your idea is great, the only thing i would ask is what happens the other days when there is NOT a 10% takeout...people might be spoiled by the low rake on Tuedsay and not bet the other days, they could lose business by having too big of a "Sale" on bets on Tuesdays.

What they could also do if they dont want to lower the takeout on their bets is to have one huge pick 5 bet in the middle of the card, with a 100k guaranteed pool, a 14% takeout and you know, they could do a ton of advertising for that bet....they would get that handle easily, their pick 4 pool today was 44k, they would get 100 if they guaranteed the 100 and lowered the take.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Stillriledup
Jeff, even Mountaineer can do something like that...they have slots and they have the only track running at this moment, the only one. Parx is only competing with Finger Lakes for the most part on Tuesdays, your idea is great, the only thing i would ask is what happens the other days when there is NOT a 10% takeout...people might be spoiled by the low rake on Tuedsay and not bet the other days, they could lose business by having too big of a "Sale" on bets on Tuesdays.
.
i don't even think most people would notice the "low rake" although they'd certainly notice significant (around 10%, NOT free programs or coffee) rebate money in their account the next day.

also, immediate benefits to mnr itself would be sooo incredibly diluted (winning bettors, most not playing live at mnr, putting extra payoff $ back into other tracks) that it would never fly with upper management.

how good is mtr gaming's player rewards program anyhow????????
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:46 PM   #29
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10% of something beats 23% of nothing

If you think lower takeout means increased handle you roll the dice for a few weeks.

If it doesn't work, pull the signal.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:10 PM   #30
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Get rid of half the tracks

There, now you can cancel the get together........
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