Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > **TRIPLE CROWN TRAIL**


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 06-09-2018, 08:39 PM   #1
DerbyJackpot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 53
Congrats To Communist China Management LLC

On there Triple Crown with Justify. You seem like great ambassadors to our American Sport.

But in seriousness, hard to click with a horse when its owners are them. Like yay who cares....
DerbyJackpot is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-09-2018, 08:41 PM   #2
jocko699
Resurrectionist
 
jocko699's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerbyJackpot View Post
On there Triple Crown with Justify. You seem like great ambassadors to our American Sport.

But in seriousness, hard to click with a horse when its owners are them. Like yay who cares....

WTF are you talking about? Get out of here.
__________________
Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood.
jocko699 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-09-2018, 09:45 PM   #3
AlsoEligible
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 234
What the hell are you on about?

First, racing has never been an inclusively American sport, even in America. The first Triple Crown winner was owned by a Canadian. The previous Triple Crown winner was owned by an Egyptian. Who cares?

Second, China Horse Club is not even the majority owner of Justify, WinStar is. And they are very much an American outfit. So even if you can't 'click' with CHC (whatever that means), you could at least be happy for Troutt and the others at WinStar.

What a stupid thread.
AlsoEligible is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-10-2018, 12:48 AM   #4
clicknow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlsoEligible View Post
What the hell are you on about?

First, racing has never been an inclusively American sport, even in America. The first Triple Crown winner was owned by a Canadian. The previous Triple Crown winner was owned by an Egyptian. Who cares?


What a stupid thread.
It's actually not that stupid, considering how many U.S. horse players appear to really resent "foreigners" entering "our" races.

To me, it is an international sport.

Without the Arabians, Turks and Barbs that are native to the Middle East, there would have been no mates for the English mares....and without the British, we would not have had any horses to race in U.S. for their races in around 1665.

Last edited by clicknow; 06-10-2018 at 12:51 AM.
clicknow is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 06-14-2018, 11:22 AM   #5
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,183
I agree...stupid thread. But, stupid threads are still allowed.

I never got why horseplayers cared much who owned the horse. Unless it was some goldmine dude, like the guy who owned California Chrome...now HE was funny...
__________________
@paceadvantage | Support the site and become a today!
PaceAdvantage is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2018, 11:25 AM   #6
Thomas Roulston
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lakehurst, NJ
Posts: 1,035
In the 1963 D.C. International, one horse's owner was listed as "Hungarian Government" and another "U.S.S.R." The Hungarian horse, whose name escapes me at the moment, finished seventh I believe (in a field of 10), while the Russian horse, Bryansk (named for a Russian city), finished last.
Thomas Roulston is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2018, 07:40 PM   #7
papillon
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
I agree...stupid thread. But, stupid threads are still allowed.

I never got why horseplayers cared much who owned the horse. Unless it was some goldmine dude, like the guy who owned California Chrome...now HE was funny...
Normally, I could care less about who owns a horse, but with the China Horse Club, you literally have no clue who comprises that club, they are secret. The NY times found this out when it tried to track down who really owns Jystify. It couldn't, but it did unearth George Soros's share if the golden goose, which disturbs me more than the Chinses tbh.

This sport has enough transparency problems as it is. If ownership is allowed to be completely secret, you could have the same owners secretely owning every horse in the starting gate. Do you feel safe wagering on races like that? Do you think such situations are going to benefit the sport?

There is no reason for horse ownership to be secret. The secrecy of the China Horse Club smacks far too closely of the secret art seller situation that has made art auctions one of the chief money laudering avenues in the world. That the last word on the Coolemore deal was that it was on hold until Sept in order to avoid capital gains taxes, doesn't help.

Here's a scenario from the art world to ponder: A would be money lauderer goes around secretly buying up works by an unknown artist. No one knows who the buyer is, or that the buyer is all the same person. The "sales" create a false market for the artist, generating manufactured interest at auction. The secret owner begins off loading the works at auctions, sometomes bidding against himself to artificially raise the market value. Then he begins the real sales, and each piece sold is an exchange of ill gotten gains for clean money. The buyer and even the auction house have almost no way to determine with whom they are dealing.

Is that so far from Justify's situation? Secret owners buy a horse everyone passes on, including Spendthrift, for $600,000 (question, if everyone passed on him, who was the opposing bidder? Given his problems, he logically should have gone for half what he did). Sit on him for a 9 months. Inexplicably, sell him (he could be Windstar's Tapit or A P Indy) to a buyer that has no way to learn with whom it is dealing, but then delay the actual sale for 4 months to avoid paying taxes that should not apply given current ownership has ostensibly owned the horse for more than a year. There is a red flag for every sentence in this paragraph.


FWIW a sale is not a sale until finalized. If whatever agreement was reached qualifies as a true contract, taxes accrued immediately. No taxes. No sale. When you have $75M on the table, the last thing you want to do is give the buyer time to think themselves out of the expenditure. Four months is a long time.

Anywho, if owners insist on secrecy, I insist on the right to disparage them for doing so.

Want to know how I know Magnier is not a money launderer? He sells his art at auction for £157M under his own name.

Last edited by papillon; 07-03-2018 at 07:45 PM.
papillon is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-03-2018, 07:55 PM   #8
lamboguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,662
i heard someone mention that George Soros owns a good chunk of this horse..
lamboguy is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-06-2018, 01:13 PM   #9
Someday Silent
Registered User
 
Someday Silent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: South of heaven
Posts: 384
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/0...rge-soros.html

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/0...cky-derby.html

Personally I try not to get sucked into the conspiracy theory mentality, but the sheer volume of money being passed around is enough to give one pause.
Someday Silent is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-06-2018, 06:12 PM   #10
Grits
Registered User
 
Grits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
I agree...stupid thread. But, stupid threads are still allowed.

I never got why horseplayers cared much who owned the horse. Unless it was some goldmine dude, like the guy who owned California Chrome...now HE was funny...
Yeah, the thread I began titled, China Horse Club, on this very same subject linking the NYT investigative piece, weeks ago on May 6 was stupid then, too. I guess.

Still sucks that money laundering by the Chinese is ongoing. Given, here in our country, we sorta frown on it in that it can land one in federal prison for a long while.

We'll never learn the identities of the Chinese shareholders. Good old communism frowns on it, too. Apparently.
Grits is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-06-2018, 07:35 PM   #11
PaceAdvantage
PA Steward
 
PaceAdvantage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,183
Yeah, IMO it was. We have no control over who owns or trains a horse. Nor should we. So why fret over it? Makes no sense to me.

For every "reprehensible" owner, there are multiple feel-good stories out there in the horse world.
__________________
@paceadvantage | Support the site and become a today!
PaceAdvantage is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 07-11-2018, 05:21 AM   #12
clicknow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon View Post
There is no reason for horse ownership to be secret.
There is no reason for horse veterinary records not to be available to bettors, either.

It is very meaningful to me to know if a horse has had ESWT, etc.

I"m sure I'm not the ONLY bettor who has wagered on a horse who is actually a cripple in some respect.
clicknow is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.