20 of the leading tracks announce plans to phase out race-day meds

[highnote]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

As someone who has gotten into many scraps with Andy here, let me echo this point. I don't agree with all of his opinions expressed here, but his day job is providing extensive amounts of good information to the public and serving as an ambassador for the sport. He does an amazing job. We need more Andy Serlings, even if it does mean I get slapped down every now and then on the PA board.

He's a good commentator. I agree with that. However, he doesn't offer any good solutions to help grow the racing game. He, along with other oldsters, are quick to criticize those who do offer up solutions. Meanwhile, the toilet water is spinning in the bowl and racing is swirling down the drain.

Fortunately, horseplayers have more options than ever in today's world that didn't exist 30 years ago.

So let me reiterate some solutions I mentioned because I can't remember everything I've written:

1. Reduce the number of race days.
2. Increase the number of grass races.
3. Start a handicap division.
4. Eliminate all race day medication.

So which one of these ideas is radical, absurd, or unrealistic?

I agree that one or more of these ideas might not be popular with racetrack management and horsemen and that will prevent them from instituting any of these. As long as horsemen can pick up a check for running in last place there is no incentive to change. As long as executives can get subsidies from casinos that are large enough to provide all of them with paychecks every two weeks there is no incentive to change. Why should they? I don't blame them. But there is no room for a serious horseplayer in that game. That's ok. There are other great options for horseplayers. Times change. That is one reality we probably all agree on.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by highnote

So let me reiterate some solutions I mentioned because I can't remember everything I've written:

1. Reduce the number of race days.
2. Increase the number of grass races.
3. Start a handicap division.
4. Eliminate all race day medication.

So which one of these ideas is radical, absurd, or unrealistic?

OK, here you go...


1 ) NYRA has done some of this to anyone paying attention. However, you can't simply eliminate Winter racing, or great chunks of days, without driving a significant portion of your participants away, which will very likely result in them never coming back. Many of your participants need Winter racing to make enough money to sustain themselves through the warmer months when the racing is much more competitive. It's a delicate eco-system, and simply cutting chunks of race days from your calendar will damage your product going forward, not improve it.


2 ) We card a significant number of turf races at NYRA as we have two courses at every track ( we just built a second one at Aqueduct ). You can't eliminate dirt racing altogether, as for about four months a year you can't run on the grass, and thus need dirt horses in your population. As it is, because we run so many turf races, it is hard to fill the dirt races in the Winter. Also, turf racing is very weather sensitive, and carding too many turf races can cause your cards to get destroyed in the event of rain, something that happened quite a bit in 2018. While you can try to protect turf races with MTOs, if you lose too many turf races, these MTOs will not be able to run in future carded dirt races, further reducing those fields going forward. It's an extremely delicate balance, and many would say we card too many turf races already.


3 ) Unless you are a horse alchemist ( if you are, you will be in high demand ) I don't even know what this means. You can't simply "start" a division....you need the players. To be honest, handicap races have gone away because people don't want to run in those races, so creating a division out of thin air of horses that won't even run, even if they existed, makes little to no sense. You can say this is some sort of solution on your part, but it's not. The supposed "handicap division" is in disarray this year, in case you haven't noticed. We wish it to be better and more robust....but you can't make that happen out of thin air.


4 ) Eliminating all race day medication is a goal/crusade of some people. I'm not weighing in on how I feel about that, but if you think that will strengthen field size, you are kidding only yourself. Regardless, this is not a "solution" as much as an opinion.


You write a LOT of words, and maybe your intentions are good, but that doesn't mean they make sense. You also continue to insult me with ageist remarks ( yes, you have bigotry issues ) and suggestions that I have no solutions. This is also untrue. My solutions are to educate and create a more entertaining environment. I try my best to do this each and every day through a variety of mediums. I am sure I am frequently unsuccessful, but to suggest I offer nothing is as incorrect as it is insulting.

Just because you say something is a solution doesn't make that so.

[iamt]

"However, he doesn't offer any good solutions to help grow the racing game."

And neither do you.


As I have commented previously all your "solutions" basically come down to the basic, well known idea, that bigger fields is good for racing. None of what you have proposed actually addresses the whole question of why field sizes are falling.


You had your earlier rant on "socialism" for owners. If the purses were so good and returns so great form all these short fields why aren't there more owners and more horses? Why is someone like Jacobson getting out of the industry citing the lack of return when he should be best positioned to take advantage of it?



All that your idea of fewer race days and handicap divisions will do is further reduce returns to the owners, and accelerate the decline, we'll end up at a similar level to where we are now just with fewer races.


Removing raceday medications, while a noble step, in the short term will reduce the number of starts per runner.


More turf races has been recognized everywhere as an aid to field size. There are practical limits on how much more racing some tracks can take.






Owners and Handicappers for the main should expect to lose money on racing. It is basically discretionary spending, and people are deciding they aren't getting their money's worth and leaving the industry. Racing needs to improve the experience for both owners and handicappers to try and retain and build on who is there and this requires much larger structural changes to make it worthwhile for tracks to attempt than there is open t them at the moment.



Changes to host fees etc would be needed so tracks could see some realistic gain form the upside. The actual framework for races themselves isn't the problem, it is just where it manifests itself.

[highnote]

I appreciate you taking time to share your comments. This has been a useful discussion. I will reply in detail later.

Originally Posted by the little guy

OK, here you go...


1 ) NYRA has done some of this to anyone paying attention. However, you can't simply eliminate Winter racing, or great chunks of days, without driving a significant portion of your participants away, which will very likely result in them never coming back. Many of your participants need Winter racing to make enough money to sustain themselves through the warmer months when the racing is much more competitive. It's a delicate eco-system, and simply cutting chunks of race days from your calendar will damage your product going forward, not improve it.


2 ) We card a significant number of turf races at NYRA as we have two courses at every track ( we just built a second one at Aqueduct ). You can't eliminate dirt racing altogether, as for about four months a year you can't run on the grass, and thus need dirt horses in your population. As it is, because we run so many turf races, it is hard to fill the dirt races in the Winter. Also, turf racing is very weather sensitive, and carding too many turf races can cause your cards to get destroyed in the event of rain, something that happened quite a bit in 2018. While you can try to protect turf races with MTOs, if you lose too many turf races, these MTOs will not be able to run in future carded dirt races, further reducing those fields going forward. It's an extremely delicate balance, and many would say we card too many turf races already.


3 ) Unless you are a horse alchemist ( if you are, you will be in high demand ) I don't even know what this means. You can't simply "start" a division....you need the players. To be honest, handicap races have gone away because people don't want to run in those races, so creating a division out of thin air of horses that won't even run, even if they existed, makes little to no sense. You can say this is some sort of solution on your part, but it's not. The supposed "handicap division" is in disarray this year, in case you haven't noticed. We wish it to be better and more robust....but you can't make that happen out of thin air.


4 ) Eliminating all race day medication is a goal/crusade of some people. I'm not weighing in on how I feel about that, but if you think that will strengthen field size, you are kidding only yourself. Regardless, this is not a "solution" as much as an opinion.


You write a LOT of words, and maybe your intentions are good, but that doesn't mean they make sense. You also continue to insult me with ageist remarks ( yes, you have bigotry issues ) and suggestions that I have no solutions. This is also untrue. My solutions are to educate and create a more entertaining environment. I try my best to do this each and every day through a variety of mediums. I am sure I am frequently unsuccessful, but to suggest I offer nothing is as incorrect as it is insulting.

Just because you say something is a solution doesn't make that so.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by highnote

He's a good commentator. I agree with that. However, he doesn't offer any good solutions to help grow the racing game. He, along with other oldsters, are quick to criticize those who do offer up solutions. Meanwhile, the toilet water is spinning in the bowl and racing is swirling down the drain.

If all of us contributed as much to the game as TLG does...then there could be no doubt that this game would be WAY better off than it currently is. What TLG does is a MUCH bigger help to the game than what WE could ever hope to provide...with our anonymous suggestions here. And I say this after having gotten into plenty of arguments here with him, myself.

You keep calling him an "oldster"...which means that you are a relatively young person. Might we attribute your overly-optimistic suggestions here to the "naivete of youth"?

[highnote]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If all of us contributed as much to the game as TLG does...then there could be no doubt that this game would be WAY better off than it currently is. What TLG does is a MUCH bigger help to the game than what WE could ever hope to provide...with our anonymous suggestions here. And I say this after having gotten into plenty of arguments here with him, myself.

You keep calling him an "oldster"...which means that you are a relatively young person. Might we attribute your overly-optimistic suggestions here to the "naivete of youth"?

I am at the end of the baby boomers. I am an oldster.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by highnote

I am at the end of the baby boomers. I am an oldster.

If you are an oldster...then you should know that TLG isn't part of the problem. He is part of the SOLUTION.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If you are an oldster...then you should know that TLG isn't part of the problem. He is part of the SOLUTION.

His lack of tact is a turnoff to former customers like me. So I wonder if he is truly part of the solution or a contributor to the problems. It is possible to be both.

I feel as a stakeholder it is my duty to be part of the solution. I didn't cause the decline in racing, but I have offered free advice and opinions that are worth every penny.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by the little guy

OK, here you go...

I do agree with you that my solutions are not necessarily solutions. That was a poor word choice on my part. I should have called them "suggestions". My suggestions might lead to solutions, but if they are not tried then they won't. They won't get tried because there is a systemic problem in racing and the powers that be are too afraid to take risks to fix the problems that have led to the decline of racing. Fear of failure will prevent action from being taken that could reverse the decline.

Too, your negative attitude prevents you from being an evangelist for change. What I hear from you is the use of a lot of negatives.

You wrote:

you can't simply eliminate Winter racing,

You can't eliminate dirt racing altogether

You can't simply "start" a division... you can't make that happen out of thin air.

Eliminating all race day medication ... is not a "solution"

If you and the powers that be believe those things can't be done, then guess what... you're right.

I am not a bigot. I am just stating a fact. You're in the group called "oldsters", and old people are not as likely to be revolutionary thinkers as youngsters. Oldsters are just hoping they can survive in their jobs long enough to make it to retirement.

Youth has the benefit of time and can afford to take risks and rock the boat. Einstein was something like 24 when he came up with Relativity. The Beatles wrote their greatest songs when they were 20-30 years old. Travis Kalanick created UBER when he was young. Steve Jobs. Bill Gates. Zuckerberg. Mozart. The list goes on.

As I have said before, when I came up with the idea of a betting exchange back in 1997 (when I was still a youngster) I knew it would have disrupted the industry had it been allowed to happen in the U.S., but the threat of jail kept me from pursuing. Betfair did disrupt the industry in England. Racing executives are so afraid of betting exchanges that it took Betfair 20 years of lobbying before it became legal in NJ. UBER disrupted the taxi industry globally. Both those companies were (and probably still are) hated and loathed. A lot of people have been hurt by them. Change is not always easy. The old ways would have eventually come to an end one way or another. It is inevitable that they would be replaced by something new and better.

Racing has so much competition from new and better forms of entertainment that it is surprising it still exists. Thank goodness for racinos. Otherwise BEL and AQU would be housing and shopping complexes.

On the other hand, sometimes oldsters do have good ideas. Beethoven was 53 when his 9th symphony was first performed. However, he started thinking about setting the "Ode to Joy" poem to music when he was 22. So maybe when today's racing youngsters become oldsters they will have it all figured out.

We'll see.

[Tom]

Why would anyone need tact with a self-described former customer?

Open 2 tracks and fill them with turf races.....really great idea.
Did you not see any of Saratoga last year - the most decimated meeting I can remember.

NYRA needs to replace one turf course at teach plant with a poly track, IMHO, if they insist on running so many turf races.

How's that for a suggestion?

[46zilzal]

I look around and the mean age continues to rise..At just about every venue I attend. .....except Oaklawn..

UNLESS there is something to motivate the younger crowd, when we die off who will take our place?

Woodbine used to have a televised channel on the tube every racing day (PUBLIC channel for all to see). Each day they would give a stake to about 5 to 6 groups of young people and then follow then during the racing card to update their progress. Was a very successful maneuver until the Slots at Racetracks program was junked....NOW they are as corporate as the other tracks forgetting the good progress they made....Too bad.

Myself I think it has to do with widespread ADD in the younger crowd.....Without constant titillation they are out of here.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Holy shit

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

Holy shit

It's kind of the answer to "this thread is so bad that....."


A nine year hiatus and, somehow, it seemed like just yesterday.

[highnote]

Originally Posted by Tom

Why would anyone need tact with a self-described former customer?

Open 2 tracks and fill them with turf races.....really great idea.
Did you not see any of Saratoga last year - the most decimated meeting I can remember.

NYRA needs to replace one turf course at teach plant with a poly track, IMHO, if they insist on running so many turf races.

How's that for a suggestion?

Those suggestions are as valid as mine.

Have you ever seen a Breeders' Cup turf race taken off the turf and switched to the main track?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by highnote

His lack of tact is a turnoff to former customers like me. So I wonder if he is truly part of the solution or a contributor to the problems. It is possible to be both.

I feel as a stakeholder it is my duty to be part of the solution. I didn't cause the decline in racing, but I have offered free advice and opinions that are worth every penny.

Isn’t it ironic that the people who have filled one PA thread after another over the years with every complaint and negative comment imaginable about the state of the horse racing game in N.A. are the same people that are so close-minded about making some positive suggested changes? Changes that just might offer some serious solutions to the game’s continued decline.

Someone has recently been using the term “Cliché”. Well from where I’m sitting the best cliché I could think of that relates to any positive outlook for the game based on some of the rhetoric here would be: “Misery Loves Company”.

I can truthfully say that from my personal experience in playing for many decades, that had it not been for the discovery of Hong Kong racing I would have quit the game entirely at least 5 years ago. However, I’m not going to bore the skeptics and naysayers with any more of my positive reactions to the HK game.
Not knowing what its all about is their loss.