Religion II

[hcap]

Your reverse tinme theory and religious proclamations included in your 11 part thesis was discussed many time before.

Here a post from THE ORIGINAL Religious thread
Circa 01-28-2015

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...ious&page=1122

Where I inform you the originator of your proclamations, might be......

Originally Posted by hcap

After googling your time "flows" from the future stuff....I found this.

http://www.angelfire.com/va/sovereig...triunity1.html

E. Charles Heinze wrote "Trinity and Triunity"
Salvation and the Nature of the Godhead

It seems this 1995 copyrighted article might have been a source for your entire 11 part treatise.

So just as I thought, there are only other fundamentalists (and no others) who believe the same flawed logic of the future "flowing" towards us instead of the present moving and changing into and towards the future.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What "'excuse'" did you address?

And why don't you answer my question. Is all human activity physical in nature? Yes or no? Are you too chicken to answer?

You using "humans or animals abilities to "forecast" as an example of precognition of various sorts, to act (effect) before cause actually occurs.

Human activity are physical events, unless you can demonstrate a non material realm. Which is as tough as proving effect before it's producing cause occurs

Prove me wrong. Let's examine your "proof"

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You using "humans or animals abilities to "forecast" as an example of precognition of various sorts, to act (effect) before cause actually occurs.

Human activity are physical events, unless you can demonstrate a non material realm. Which is as tough as proving effect before it's producing cause occurs

Prove me wrong. Let's examine your "proof"

Okay...so in your world, [all] human activity is purely a physical event? You are now on record as saying this. So, let's run with this.

You say that you need a demonstration of a non-material realm, correct? Try this on for size: Do we humans have the ability to time-travel -- to go back and relive our past? Do any of us have that ability?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Like what?

Resurrection.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Resurrection.

Hmm...there's more direct proof for the resurrection of Christ both in Divine Revelation and in Natural Revelation than there is for the big firecracker in the sky.

Remind me again....how many people were direct eyewitnesses to the Big Bang? Did anyone record it? Is it on UTube?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Hmm...there's more direct proof for the resurrection of Christ ...

That statement is not true. We've been down that road before.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Remind me again....how many people were direct eyewitnesses to the Big Bang?

You first. How many people were direct eyewitnesses to the creation in Genesis?

[Hank]

Originally Posted by hcap

As I said, forgot to mention your esteemed mentor. I guess your comments on chronological time was the first double oxymoron in existence learned from Prof. Corey's teachings..

https://youtu.be/RHlLmYVCzKY

Hey Prof. Repeted general circular statements does not constitute evidence.

You said you had "proof" of effect before cause.

Well? Irwin,. or is it Ralph?
https://youtu.be/wK9odsWwfIo

Cap you have to communicate at the level your interlocutor comprehends.

YouTube

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by TJDave

What circles?

It's an observation that those who reject the Hebrew and/or Christian scriptures for many other reasons, also seem to only employ a literalist interpretation. I tend to read or converse with individuals or groups who are open to more. That an author intended an allegorical or typological meaning can be the literal sense of the wording.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Does this saying also apply in reverse? As in "scratch a fundamentalist, find an atheist"?

I think for a minority it can eventually, when hyperliteralism leads to supposed contradiction in modern science vs. literalistic readings of ancient creation narratives, e.g.

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by boxcar

However, it does not follow logically that Today causes Tomorrow! For who can say with certainty that there will be a Tomorrow after Today? It is not necessary that Tomorrow follow Today; for it isn't necessary in the first place for there to be a Tomorrow. However, if there be any Yesterdays, it is logically necessary that they follow our Todays. Today has the potential to be become Yesterday just as Tomorrow has the potential to become Today. But by the same token, it is not necessary either that there be a Tomorrow; for Today could be the end.

"For who can say with certainty that there will be a Tomorrow"?

That's why it's a potential in need of being actualized. Do potentials precede that which actualizes them? Then the world would be nothing but potentials, i.e., possessing no change.

"Today has the potential to be become Yesterday".

What is mistaken metaphysically in stating that the forward flow of time actualized today's potential for becoming yesterday?

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by boxcar

It's not arbitrary at all! We all intuitively think logically about time, even though we're so chronologically time bound. The only way to trace the flow of Time is by starting with the Present. I repeat: it is the only way -- if no other reason, we cannot trace it from the dead time of the Past or the the yet-to-lived/used time of the Future; for Phenomena only touches our senses in the Present.

We know that one hour from now will become NOW, and we know that one moment from NOW will become the Past. We know, therefore, that the Present is the portal through which all Time flows. The Present is always situated between the Future and Past.

We know that one hour from now is the immediate future that is arriving to meet us. We know that two weeks from now is in the near future. We know that one year from now is in the intermediate future. We know 5 years from now is in the distant future.

Likewise, we know that one hour ago is in the immediate past. We know that 2 weeks ago is in the recent past. We know that a year from now is in the intermediate past. And that five years from now is the distant past, etc.

We intuitively know that we look in one direction for the future and think of the future as laying ahead of us, relentlessly moving to meet us at some point in time. We also know that the Past is behind us and we look in the opposite direction back to it when our minds think upon it. And just as the Future is moving closer and closer to us, the Past is moving farther and farther away each moment, each hour, each day...receding farther and farther into the distant past. And we do all this with our minds in the Present. Our minds look forward or back just as we physically look in the Present toward the East for the new, oncoming day and look in the opposite direction of the West for the aging day's demise. The Material and Immaterial are in sync, aren't they? Intuitive Revelation and Natural Revelation are in perfect harmony --just as we would expect from an infinitely wise God.

Well, what about Divine Revelation? Is this, too, in sync with Natural and Intuitive Revelation? I suspect, Doc, we might part company here. However, you have already conceded that God in eternity has decreed -- has ordained -- not only the number of your days, and my days but the days of all mankind. So, when God created Adam and Eve all their lives lay ahead of them. Adam and Eve had nothing but a Future, as did their entire progeny! All mankind's existence was bound up in the Fountainhead of the Future! Not the Past! The vast storehouse of all God-ordained Time for all mankind is the Future, whereas the Past is the graveyard of all Time.

Look at Time as the "Spring of the Water of Life", to borrow a biblical phrase. When this world passes away and ceases to exist, will it be because the graveyard of the Past became too full -- became so bloated -- so overloaded -- that it could no longer pass through the portal of the Present to become Tomorrow? Or will it be that the world simply ran out of Time -- that the spring of the water of life dried up and there was no more water to sustain life -- no more time to pass through the portal of the Present? Which do you think it will be? If you really believe that God in eternity has ordained all the days of mankind, and all the days that the world has left reside in the Future, then the spring of the water of life must be flowing downstream from the Future to the Present. Life, as we know it, will end when that spring dries up --when all Time ceases to exist. And when Time ceases to exist, the universe, as we know it, will cease to exist!

Finally, when Jesus returns to restore all things, will he be returning from the Past or coming out of the world's Future?

"When Jesus returns to restore all things, will he be returning from the Past or coming out of the world's Future?

Though outside of time, he would be returning to the world's present.

God has also ordained efficient causation, whereby matter "relentlessly" gets older. You rely on chronological time so as to distinguish past, present, and future, in order to argue against it by conceiving of the future as "moving to meet us". That phrase is purely arbitrary. "We are moving to meet the future" can be another's choice phrasing, by looking at her alarm clock, or intuitively favoring the divinely inspired concept of progress ("Repent"! and change for your fullest realization of human flourishing).

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Okay...so in your world, [all] human activity is purely a physical event? You are now on record as saying this. So, let's run with this.

You say that you need a demonstration of a non-material realm, correct? Try this on for size: Do we humans have the ability to time-travel -- to go back and relive our past? Do any of us have that ability?

I accept your admission that you have NO example of effect preceding its cause, and are just stalling.

[hcap]

Obvious you are lying through your teeth Ralph.

YouTube (Short URL)

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Hank

Cap you have to communicate at the level your interlocutor comprehends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE-VWAI805g

I knew he was out of it, but underestimated of the depth of his denial and dishonesty.

Like debating an uneducated brick from boxcarian lala land!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by dnlgfnk

"When Jesus returns to restore all things, will he be returning from the Past or coming out of the world's Future?

Though outside of time, he would be returning to the world's present.

I didn't ask you that. From WHERE will Christ be be returning as of right now: From the Past or from the Future? I asked if the return of Christ is in the world's Future or the Past.

God has also ordained efficient causation, whereby matter "relentlessly" gets older. You rely on chronological time so as to distinguish past, present, and future, in order to argue against it by conceiving of the future as "moving to meet us". That phrase is purely arbitrary. "We are moving to meet the future" can be another's choice phrasing, by looking at her alarm clock, or intuitively favoring the divinely inspired concept of progress ("Repent"! and change for your fullest realization of human flourishing).

Actually, I rely on the Present to distinguish between the the components of Time. I determine the flow of Time from the Present only. One hour from now WILL become Now, and Now WILL become one hour into the Past in 60 minutes.

Note carefully the tenses of the verbs that in bold. This is because the fountainhead of all time is the Future. If Time logically flowed to us from the Past we'd have to use past tense verbs, which would be totally incoherent.

And Hcap brought up the same objection about "we're moving to meet the future". But we only move as we're on the planet that is moving. The future will meet us, providing this planet keeps moving -- just in the same way Tomorrow will greet us from the East if the planet stays in motion.