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08-11-2018, 12:36 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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ADW rating service
I was hoping HANA would take the ball and run with the idea of an ADW rating service. Maybe they still will?
In the meantime, can you list things that are important to you in an ADW service?
I will collect them and try to organize them and then post them here occasionally. Then I can try to do a survey to find which ADWs offer the things that are most important.
The goal is to have an ADW rating service kind of like HANA's track rating service.
Feel free to post...
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08-11-2018, 02:25 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: East Hartford, Connecticut
Posts: 47
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I'll start:
1) rebates that matter
2) variety of tracks offered
3) nice bonus
4) free or below market PPs
5) little or no site down time
6) responsive customer service
7) account security against hacks
8) not a high priority, but investigate crypto as a possible banking option
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08-11-2018, 03:27 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12/ALL/ALL
I'll start:
1) rebates that matter
2) variety of tracks offered
3) nice bonus
4) free or below market PPs
5) little or no site down time
6) responsive customer service
7) account security against hacks
8) not a high priority, but investigate crypto as a possible banking option
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I can start a spreadsheet with 1-8 as column headings.
1) What do you mean by "matter"? An average of say 5% on straight wagers across all tracks? Maybe 4% on straight wagers at major tracks like BEL or SA? Or a minimum rebate on straight wagers of at least 7% regardless of track? What about exotics?
2) Foreign as well as U.S. -- Europe, S. America, and the Far East?
3) What do you mean by #3? What kinds of bonuses?
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08-11-2018, 11:40 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: East Hartford, Connecticut
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highnote
I can start a spreadsheet with 1-8 as column headings.
1) What do you mean by "matter"? An average of say 5% on straight wagers across all tracks? Maybe 4% on straight wagers at major tracks like BEL or SA? Or a minimum rebate on straight wagers of at least 7% regardless of track? What about exotics?
2) Foreign as well as U.S. -- Europe, S. America, and the Far East?
3) What do you mean by #3? What kinds of bonuses?
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1) 7% sounds nice
2) I only bet North American tracks but I'm certainly open to giving Europe a try someday, especially the UK, Ireland, and France.
3) Like AmWager and XpressBet with their $500 signup bonuses.
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08-11-2018, 12:12 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12/ALL/ALL
1) 7% sounds nice
2) I only bet North American tracks but I'm certainly open to giving Europe a try someday, especially the UK, Ireland, and France.
3) Like AmWager and XpressBet with their $500 signup bonuses.
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I like betting the French trotting races where the horses do NOT pull a sulky. Instead, the jockeys actually ride the horses. It looks ridiculous the first time you see it, but once you get used to it, it is fun to watch.
$500 bonus is pretty good! I never got a bonus when I signed up.
Not sure how to list rebates in a spreadsheet. It's kind of an unwritten rule that the actual amount of rebates and the tracks they give rebates on are kept hush-hush.
However, maybe the average win/pl/show and various exotic rebates can be averaged along with the high and low rebates.
For example, some ADWs give zero rebate on the KY Derby, but might give a 19% rebate on some bush league dog track.
It gets complicated because there is also the matter of source market fees which can affect the amount of the rebate for people in a certain jurisdictions.
But all this information should be publicly available for horseplayers.
Who benefits the most by makng this information difficult to obtain?
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08-11-2018, 01:23 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,290
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In a perfect world information about rebates would be transparent.
But there's a reason the topic of rebates has become hush hush.
And there's a reason HANA hasn't published a list of ADWs with info about rebates.
Have you considered the law of unintended consequences?
If HANA were to publish a list of independent ADWs with anything that even remotely resembled a rate sheet:
I can pretty much guarantee you that every independent ADW on such a list would face a serious backlash from the industry.
I'm talking about tracks and horsemen threatening to pull track signals, demanding even higher signal fees than they do now, and tracks and horsemen doing everything in their power to make it increasingly difficult for the independent ADW owner to stay in business.
For no other reason than the name of the independent ADW appears on HANA's list.
Look, I happen to think that publishing a list of ADWs is a good idea.
But if we go there, we have to do it in such a way that we're not putting a bullseye on the back of the independent ADW owner.
-jp
.
__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 08-11-2018 at 01:31 PM.
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08-11-2018, 01:50 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,563
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I used to ask for transparency about rebates...but, as Jeff P has already stated, that's an unreasonable request due to the consequences that it raises.
Then I asked for level state laws...whereby certain states wouldn't be excluded from whatever rebates are known and available. But that too seems to be an impossible hill to climb due to the governmental component.
Now I just ask for a better grade of video playback...so I can follow the horses with more clarity while I watch my replays. This request seems modest enough...and it might be implemented during my lifetime.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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08-11-2018, 02:12 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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My thought was NOT to publish the actual rebate each ADW gives for each track and type of wager, but instead to list the AVERAGE rebate a particular ADW offers for each type of wager, along with the high, low, and perhaps median. There are too many tracks for which rebates are available to be able to list them all in a summary format.
It will be up to the bettor to do more research.
One thing I would encourage every bettor on paceadvantage to do is get an account with an ADW that offers rebates and use it even when they are at the track. Do NOT wager directly with the track unless you are getting a rebate. That's a sucker's bet. You're being taken advantage of and you are at a big disadvantage to professional bettors who all get rebates.
So the purpose of putting together an ADW spreadsheet is to help raise awareness in the betting community and drive more customers to use ADWs for wagering.
Rebates will increase churn and that benefits everyone.
Last edited by highnote; 08-11-2018 at 02:14 PM.
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08-11-2018, 02:46 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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This is going to be an interesting study.
I just learned about the QWIKbetz.com ADW.
It looks like they are Long Island based and operate through Suffolk OTB.
They clearly post on their website that they give rebates in the range of 0.5% to 7.0% depending on the type of wager and daily volume.
These types of rewards are good for bettors who use them and it's good to see the use of rewards is spreading.
I checked out Xpressbet's reward plans. They offer a large variety of rewards that can be used in many ways -- from dining vouchers to wager vouchers. The large number of Xpressbet's offerings make it difficult to put their reward plans into a spreadsheet for easy comparison.
For example, a bettor who earns 80,000 XB points can exchange it for a $100 wagering voucher. 72,000 XB points gets you a $100 meal voucher. Depending on your needs a wager voucher might be more valuable than a meal voucher -- or vice versa.
Also, if I am reading their terms correctly, if you wager on a Gulfstream track Xpressbet gives you 4 XB points for each dollar wagered. So if you bet $20,000 you could get a $100 wagering voucher. That is a rebate of about 0.005.
Other ADWs might give you, say, 0.05 on Gulfstream wagers, regardless of your betting volume -- that is 10 times larger than Xpressbet's rebate on their own track.
I applaud Xpressbet for offering a wide variety of rewards and I also encourage bettors to shop for the rewards that best meet their needs.
Now that I think about it, wagering on-track without rewards might meet some people's entertainment needs because it saves them the time and effort it takes to sign up for an ADW or a rewards package. That time savings is worth something.
So I can't really knock tracks for NOT offering rebates.
Last edited by highnote; 08-11-2018 at 02:48 PM.
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08-11-2018, 09:05 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highnote
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added Daily Racing Form
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08-12-2018, 09:11 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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Last edited by highnote; 08-12-2018 at 09:13 PM.
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08-13-2018, 08:29 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: East Hartford, Connecticut
Posts: 47
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08-13-2018, 09:20 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12/ALL/ALL
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Thank you!
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08-13-2018, 09:25 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,861
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Last edited by highnote; 08-13-2018 at 09:31 AM.
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