How did this Breeders Cup stack up with the rest?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

No, it was my entire point. You don't need as much revenue from handle when you are making so much from other sources.

Per capita is always low at Churchill (maybe the handicapping challenge will change that) but they still make money there due to all the other revenue.

We've already established that you have little clue ( I'm trying to be nice ) as to how money is made in this industry. While I appreciate you padding your resume, it was unnecessary.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by the little guy

We've already established that you have little clue ( I'm trying to be nice ) as to how money is made in this industry. While I appreciate you padding your resume, it was unnecessary.

Be a little more tolerant of him. After all...he is mainly a poker player.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by the little guy

We've already established that you have little clue ( I'm trying to be nice ) as to how money is made in this industry. While I appreciate you padding your resume, it was unnecessary.

TLG, you really need to stop. This is turning into a 1 way personal vendetta.

You posted a big post about how you thought I was wrong about Rachel Alexandra's Woodward. PA responded with a mic drop. I thought parts of it were wrong, but it was nonetheless a perfectly good post and shows what you are capable of when you decide to do a substantive post.

But you've now made about 10 personal attacks on me in the last two days. Why? What makes you think that calling me names on a message board is either necessary, appropriate, or effective advocacy of your position?

If you want to say why I am wrong about something, have at it. The floor is yours. But if you just want to insult me, keep it to yourself. We are supposed to be adults here. Act like one.

[PaceAdvantage]

You get a mic drop for that one too!

He's just keeping up appearances so that his haters have something to hate on...plus he never shies away from letting people know he thinks their opinions don't hold much water. I like that about him...I'm guessing you don't feel the same way.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

You get a mic drop for that one too!

He's just keeping up appearances so that his haters have something to hate on...plus he never shies away from letting people know he thinks their opinions don't hold much water. I like that about him...I'm guessing you don't feel the same way.

He's trying the old "stop making it personal" to deflect attention from him being wrong about things. Fortunately....I'm not fooled

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by the little guy

The BC Betting Challenge.

As for the second paragraph, which you felt a need to add for God knows what reason, it's a ridiculous non-sequitur. It's like saying they have more purple in their ads than any other racing operation.

Because the convo was about revenue from fans versus gamblers. It started when someone complained about the telecast aiming for the former rather than the latter, when the latter is supposedly so much more important. I responded that for the BC and TC, that's not true, and Dilan joined the convo. I really don't understand what you're prodding him about.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Because the convo was about revenue from fans versus gamblers. It started when someone complained about the telecast aiming for the former rather than the latter, when the latter is supposedly so much more important. I responded that for the BC and TC, that's not true, and Dilan joined the convo. I really don't understand what you're prodding him about.

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.

Sorry, but the big days of racing are actually funded by fans and owners more than the handle. Just add up the admissions to see this. Let's figure an average of $500 x 100,000. That's $50 million.

Owners, Breeders pay hefty nominations, start fees, etc which add surely $10+ million more.

I'm not trying to denigrate the handle income, but it's not factual to talk of its importance on the few days in racing where it's really the fans and everywhere else that pulls in the cash hand over fist.

I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

[Exotic1]

Originally Posted by Grits

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.



I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Grits

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.



I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

Grits, it's possible for two things to both be true:

1. Without bettors and betting handle, most of this sport collapses (although the Kentucky Derby and a few other big races might survive in some fashion).
2. Tracks stand a lot better chance of making a profit when they get people physically to the track to spend money than if they have to rely on all sources handle alone.

The BC is about 2. That doesn't mean they don't care about 1-- as TLG points out, they added their handicapping challenge and do other things to increase handle. But their business model is centered on 2. They want a big live crowd that pays a lot for tickets, buys a lot of food and drink, buys souvenirs, etc. And while the BC and TC are somewhat sui generis, there's also a fair component of that business model at places like Del Mar, Saratoga, and Oaklawn, none of which would do as well as they do if they relied strictly on betting handle.

And the import of that is that racing operations that have these additional revenue sources may end up being somewhat less solicitous towards the desires of bettors than racing operations that rely on handle alone. Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised that the sport hasn't gone even further in that direction (e.g., I'm sure a higher takeout on the Kentucky Derby would probably be feasible). But when you see the BC do things that aren't necessarily good for the bettors, that's the reason.

[EagleEye Po]

[QUOTE=the little guy]The BC Betting Challenge.

What was the BC Betting Challenge handle?....thx.

[CincyHorseplayer]

How did a solid BC from a fan and betting perspective(for a lot of players on here) turn into this endless unhappy drivel? And it's all coming from 1 direction. West Coast isn't getting any love because they have acted like ingrates wire to wire throughout this BC!

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by linrom1

There is ZERO public interest in Arrogate! If Chrome runs again at PEGASUS at a distance of 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 MILES, Arrogate won't even show up! Yet there is going to be 20,000 fans to see Chrome...and that is the definition of what a STAR is.

So please keep your stupid comments to yourself.

It has already been established that 3yo Arrogate is a markedly better/faster race horse than is aged California Chrome, who has at best defeated weak competition. California Chrome also earned the vast majority of his bankroll when racing in the middle east against competition watered-down by the switch from a synthetic surface back to dirt, at Meydan. The best Euros surely want no part of the dirt, where American runners revert to the advantages they knew there once before.


The 3yo will only improve considerably from this point forward, while Chrome should and will do himself the favor of retiring soon.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by menifee

I really enjoyed it when they had it at Woodbine, Lone Star Park, Belmont, Gulfstream. Having the event at other tracks gives the local fan a once in a lifetime opportunity to see the best horses in the world. The 2004 Classic at Lone Star was a tremendous event, especially for all the fans who saw it live.

Did you ever stop to look-up the definition of "once in a lifetime" ?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Grits

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.



I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

Here's what you said:

-----

One thing I noted a day or two prior. There was one BC ad, this one, that I absolutely loved. Unfortunately, it got the least action of all the ads. When all is said and done, it's about the betting. There's no doubt, the horseplayers make it all go. When many are discussing it, aside from here, things are too pretty pony.

------

You're complaining about the BC commercials being too fan-friendly (aka "pretty pony") when the BC clearly makes the biggest bulk of revenue from the fans (and owners/Breeders).

Just so you know, the world doesn't revolve around you, and I sure don't. If you say something I disagree with, I challenge it. I challenged TLG about going after Dilan, and the Chromie who is bashing Arrogate, and Dilan and another poster about Zenyatta/Rachel/synths/East Coast bias, all today. They aren't crying about it. Don't put your thoughts out there if you're not willing to have people challenge them.