Pin Firing ??

[Linny]

He was done at 2. In fact I was in the paddock for the Remsen and I have never seen such noticable firing marks!

This is him in the Remsen: http://www.drf.com/news/fair-grounds...petitive-group

The "dots" on his forlegs are from firing.

[davew]

those 'dots' on the forelegs look like what you would get with liquid nitrogen rather than hot pins

[magwell]

Bucked shins is just nature telling the trainer the horses is not ready for the training its getting,only time will heal those shins, pin firing just forces you to give them the time .....

[breeze]

Originally Posted by jorcus

If this links works you can see his legs in the picture.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwCQ&dur=6849

Those dots look like cryosurgery scars. Pinfiring dots are typically much smaller.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4053670
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=cryos...t:429,r:7,s:18

[Robert Fischer]

Whatever happened to letting the trainer train?

If you aren't confident in a trainer find a new.

If you choose a trainer ... let him train the horse.

As a handicapper I notice some horses that get work on their shins. Some of these are from quality barns. Some trainers believe in pin firing, some don't.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Whatever happened to letting the trainer train?

That's the thing. The modern day trainer doesn't train anymore.

Apparently, he does cryosurgery instead.

[Robert Fischer]

let the gosh darn trainer train!

[pondman]

Originally Posted by njstu44

Anyone have info on Pin Firing.....I have a 3 year old Layer Ron colt ..We have been fighting his shins for 6 months...My trainer now wants to pin fire him...Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks Stu

Has a vet seen an ultrasound?

Depending on the value of the horse, I'd go with an injection therapy, and followed it up by proper physical therapy. You need to determine first if the bow is a lesion opposed to a tear. The object is to return the tendon to as normal condition as possible, and not build scare tissue. (Some people will use waves therapy to try and prevent scare tissue.) You also want your horse's physical therapy to include movement, but not too quick. If you lock the horse up in a stall, the tendon will become like wood. Pin firing can help with some types of recovery, but for many it's not going to help, and in some cases it will damage the tendon further. All of this is going to cost you, so you've got to consider the value of the horse.

If you want this horse to run someday, I wouldn't go with natural recovery or turning the horse out in a pasture.

And in addition you need to follow up on this trainer's methods. Some of the problems are the result of ho-dunk trainers, who run poorly prepared horses with long toes on low heels. If your trainers been fighting this for 6 months, I'd put him in the ho-dunk category.

[turninforhome10]

Originally Posted by pondman

Has a vet seen an ultrasound?

Depending on the value of the horse, I'd go with an injection therapy, and followed it up by proper physical therapy. You need to determine first if the bow is a lesion opposed to a tear. The object is to return the tendon to as normal condition as possible, and not build scare tissue. (Some people will use waves therapy to try and prevent scare tissue.) You also want your horse's physical therapy to include movement, but not too quick. If you lock the horse up in a stall, the tendon will become like wood. Pin firing can help with some types of recovery, but for many it's not going to help, and in some cases it will damage the tendon further. All of this is going to cost you, so you've got to consider the value of the horse.

If you want this horse to run someday, I wouldn't go with natural recovery or turning the horse out in a pasture.

And in addition you need to follow up on this trainer's methods. Some of the problems are the result of ho-dunk trainers, who run poorly prepared horses with long toes on low heels. If your trainers been fighting this for 6 months, I'd put him in the ho-dunk category.

Amen to that one.

[WJ47]

I wouldn't do it. I'd let the colt take a few months off.

[Gallop58]

Thought I'd break out this gem on the subject of shins (Not 100% on target for this thread, but I can't help myself.)

"All athletic injuries to horses are man-made. You have to start with that proposition. In racing, all problems are blamed on everything else but the trainer, when, in truth, all problems originate with the trainer. There are dozens of lines in each breed which are supposedly prone to injury. Here's how it
works with lines that are prone to, say, knee injuries:

The trainer gets the horse, whose line in prone to kneed injuries. Nice looking horse--nicest looking in the barn. He decides to take it easy on the horse, so as not to break him down. But Lo!, the animal has other ideas. He's big, he's bold, and he's fast, all by himself. He wants to run. In fact, he's a problem to the riders because he just won't stand still and with every tiny bit of exercise he gets tougher and tougher.

An owner will only stand for doing nothing with the horse for about $5000. So, about the tenth time he asks, "how's my horse doing?" you have to have a number for him. Generally that's "Doing fine, hit a :37 first time we went 3/8ths". And don't mention the hot shins. But our Big Horse hits :35 with his first rolling 3/8ths. The trainer is gobsmacked, but instead of telling the onwer the the rider couldn't hold the horse, he acts like it was an intentional work, with the rider holding back the horse all the way. Like a big cash register in the sky, the dials roll in the owner's mind and up pops "Kentucky Derby". And, again, nobody's talking about those hot shins. Instead, the owner looks at his dwindling checkbook and says, so when's he going to race?" Well, the trainer knows he's ahead of schedule--EVERY horse needs 90 days of "training" to race. So he backs the owner off, with the "diamond in the rough" story--looks great, but still a lot of hard, grueling, work to do. But come down and watch the horse for his next breeze, ten days later--we're being cautious, remember.

This time, big trouble. with the owner watching, the kid can't get ahold of the horse and h just does what he wants. By the time the kid gets him slowed down, he's hit a :33 and a pice, a :47, and a :59. There is a collective wetting of the underwear.
And guess what? In the condition book is a Maiden Special at 5 furlongs in ten days. With the horse uncontrollable, and hitting racing times, that, to the trainer, and to the oblivious, cash-strapped owner, seems like the perfect solution. The Big Horse wins this race, but is fading badly at the finish.

The next breeze, or race, whichever comes first, is the knee
cracker--assuming the trainer and vet can continue to cover up the hot shins. In the end, it's "he was a magnificent horse, but he bucked and then chipped on us" And your buddy says, "Yeah, all Danzigs do that".
I will assert here that when a race horse gets hurt, it's the trainer's fault. I don't care if the horse started out with one leg pointing to Santa Anita and the other pointing to Churchill. It is the trainer's job to avoid destroying the raw material, and part of that job is to predict trouble on the way and to intercede before it happens. I've seen the above sequence of events, personally, about two hundred times. In fact, I've done it myself. In fact, I've seen whole stables of sale-topping
youngsters crippled in 30 days at Saratoga precisely in this manner. And it's always the good horses, the precocious horses, that are crippled first.
In disciplines other than racing, trainers find different ways to cripple horses in different places. Good horses. The best horses. And just as winning is "in the blood", so to is crippling. The trainer, in his mind, has nothing to do with it. So, it's not the Danzigs; it's the Joneses.
ti "
Tom Ivers, 2004

[turninforhome10]

Gallop58
Excellent post. The article is disheartning but in my brief experience with a barn of 15 2 yo as an assistant and leg man, it is like walking on egshells everytime the good ones go to the track.
The good ones always catch your eye when first going in company when we had them at the farm. You think " This is the one, this horse is gonna put us on the map".
Everything goes as planned and they get to the track. 2 months later after miles and miles of getting legged up, you cross your fingers and tell the jock to ask the horse "a little bit down the lane". Horse responds beautiful and the hair on your neck tingles a little as your little voice is reaffirmed.
Flash to a month later and we got our gate card and ready to rock and roll a 1/2.Anxiously you watch as the horse bows his neck and moves in to position to surge forward in their first attempt at sustained speed for a 1/2. 48.3 is the time you catch on your watch, out in 101.5. Horse finishes with his neck bowed. As they come off the track, the exercise rider smiles and the gleam in their eye tells the tale, " Any horse left" you ask. "All that I wanted boss". Giddy like a school girl you contain yourself. Horse cools out good, drinks a half a bucket of water, stand like a pro for nice bath, and grazes like they own the place. A nice cool mud on the legs and you pat yourself and envison the winners circle. A little pinch on your arm and we are off to the races.
A sunny morning greets you as you hit the barn, the first thing you notice is the barn foreman looks like that anywhere is better than here as they signal you to your prodigys stall. Fluid in the sesamoids and heat in the left knee.
What next you say and are now full in the affirmation that the racing gods truly have it out for you. The other little voice of pessimism really does not have to say anything,

Sound familar?

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by njstu44

Anyone have info on Pin Firing.....I have a 3 year old Layer Ron colt ..We have been fighting his shins for 6 months...My trainer now wants to pin fire him...Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks Stu

Hi Stu, Was Reading a Few of The Threads and Came Across yours, If You have been Have The Issues with Your Colt for 6 Months or more, It Sounds to me like there are other under lying issues with His Legs, I Would have him Re Xrayed Just to Make sure there are No Hair Line Fractures or Cracks,..

I Have Train Horses for Many Years, and The Best Treatment for Injuries Is TIME, I Know its hard to wait, But Your Horse Will Be Better for it in the Long Run..

I Specialize In Working with Problem Horses, The Ones Other Trainers Discard and Quit on... Horses with People Problems..

Please if Anyone or Anyone you Know is Having a Problem with There Horse or Horses, I Would be Glad to Help in Any Way...Thx KLS....