Jonathon Kinchen

[Suff]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Is this JK checking in?

Checkmark is a teenager, who is into Handicapping, lives in Canada, and has his own picks website too! He hopes to get into the business by getting a job at one of his home tracks. I think he's near woodbine. * we became bff's in the Saratoga play along thread Be nice to him please.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

Let me clarify....The top horseplayers/gamblers/bettors I know PERSONALLY have absolutely no interest in playing in horse racing handicapping tournaments. Collusion and vig are the top reasons why they tell me. Some are professional gamblers that do partake in poker tournaments, DFS, etc.

I agree, the very best horseplayers don't play tournaments...and the reason isn't just because of the collusion and the vig. Today's horseracing tournaments don't resemble the way the real professional horseplayers play the game. Do you suppose that there is even a single professional horseplayer out there who exists by solely making win-bets? If the tournament directors want the very best horseplayers to turn out to those tournaments...then they should model the tournaments after the way the real professionals play the game. Give the players a minimum and a maximum wager that they need to make for each stage of the tournament...and then let the PLAYERS decide how to bet that money, and what sort of wagers to make. When you allow only win/place bets, then you alienate the exotics players...who contribute the vast majority of the money to the mutuel pools.

And, what's this bullshit about forcing the tournament players to bet on every single race of a particular track? Why not use the races of TWO tracks...and allow the players to wager on the 9 races of their choice? Do the poker tournaments force the players to bet on every single poker hand?

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Fuss

I would agree with you that those things exist. But consider this: It has to exist. When $million$ is in play, only the most maniacal and calculating people will rise to the top.

This is a function of man-kind when the stakes are this high. Everywhere, wall street, hollywood, where the $ is.

Only the guy who owns Chick-Filet plays it straight, everybody else uses every possible angle to get the money. In street parlance its said "the deep end of the pool always has sharks"

That's the world.

I actually disagreed with the letter Kinchen signed and sent to BC.
You got beat. Move along.

I got chicken nuggets at Chic-Filet a couple of weeks ago. Not sure he was playing straight with me either.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Tournament player Jonathon Kinchen and I created a new contest format, made for TV, based as much as possible on how a poker tournament works.


https://www.drf.com/news/world-horse...ction-gamblers

In this new "World Horseplayer Tour"...does the tournament play go on until one player ends up with all the money, as it happens in the poker tournaments? If not...then, why bother raising the betting units as the tournament goes along?

[Maximillion]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I agree, the very best horseplayers don't play tournaments...and the reason isn't just because of the collusion and the vig. Today's horseracing tournaments don't resemble the way the real professional horseplayers play the game. Do you suppose that there is even a single professional horseplayer out there who exists by solely making win-bets? If the tournament directors want the very best horseplayers to turn out to those tournaments...then they should model the tournaments after the way the real professionals play the game. Give the players a minimum and a maximum wager that they need to make for each stage of the tournament...and then let the PLAYERS decide how to bet that money, and what sort of wagers to make. When you allow only win/place bets, then you alienate the exotics players...who contribute the vast majority of the money to the mutuel pools.

And, what's this bullshit about forcing the tournament players to bet on every single race of a particular track? Why not use the races of TWO tracks...and allow the players to wager on the 9 races of their choice? Do the poker tournaments force the players to bet on every single poker hand?

I wouldnt have confidence against anybody for 8-9 races....even more so in races I didnt get to pick out like you said.

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

In this new "World Horseplayer Tour"...does the tournament play go on until one player ends up with all the money, as it happens in the poker tournaments? If not...then, why bother raising the betting units as the tournament goes along?

In the WHT pilot, which is on youtube, there was a final table of eight and they slowly got eliminated as the "blinds" went up...I was sure I was going to hate it like Horseplayers and that terrible Win, Place and Show nonsense, but it actually was pretty good. It needs some tweaks but the show has some potential.

[LemonSoupKid]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Something feels a bit foolish when mostly anonymous Internet message board people are ripping a very accomplished tournament player who from everything I can tell is having a very good fiscal year.

To be clear on my statements, I know nothing about JK's tourney play, nor do I care to unless I step into the tournament realm. Clearly, as has been demonstrated here, it's a different skill than "normal" horse playing. Being that I handicap NFL and have for years, I have confidence that my savvy in comparing tournaments (for example, the "SuperContest") and tourney players is accurate, but I don't even need to go there. Is Fezzik a good tourney player/did he win the supercontest early and garner a rep? Yes. Did he win twice? Yep. But in a vacuum that doesn't mean what one might think it means. I presume it may be the same with JK. Do both of those guys know their respective sports well though? Of course they do.

I'm just talking about the times I've seen him on Out of the Gate. I'm not ripping anyone, I'm stating verifiable facts at hand.

Let's put it this way: If he's such a great 'capper, why do I generally fade him but follow Beer? I don't have a horse in the race either way ... haha, actually, of course I do. But it's got nothing personal to do with either. Just what garners wins at the track or OTB. That's it.

[AltonKelsey]

Not a big fan of Kinchen, no reason to be imo.


The Brooklyn Cowboy much more creative and does his thing out in the open , telling you why and how he makes his calls.


He that that $98 winner on top the other day. NYRA showed him running down the stairs at the spa , the camera guys must have been tipped off.

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I agree, the very best horseplayers don't play tournaments...and the reason isn't just because of the collusion and the vig. Today's horseracing tournaments don't resemble the way the real professional horseplayers play the game. Do you suppose that there is even a single professional horseplayer out there who exists by solely making win-bets? If the tournament directors want the very best horseplayers to turn out to those tournaments...then they should model the tournaments after the way the real professionals play the game. Give the players a minimum and a maximum wager that they need to make for each stage of the tournament...and then let the PLAYERS decide how to bet that money, and what sort of wagers to make. When you allow only win/place bets, then you alienate the exotics players...who contribute the vast majority of the money to the mutuel pools.

And, what's this bullshit about forcing the tournament players to bet on every single race of a particular track? Why not use the races of TWO tracks...and allow the players to wager on the 9 races of their choice? Do the poker tournaments force the players to bet on every single poker hand?

There are tourneys like that, Monmouth has one this weekend. see today's HT blog post too (not saying the best players would play these either, best players are getting rebates and are probably busy making the best of that).

https://blog.horsetourneys.com/2018/...ver/#more-4217

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Not a big fan of Kinchen, no reason to be imo.


The Brooklyn Cowboy much more creative and does his thing out in the open , telling you why and how he makes his calls.


He that that $98 winner on top the other day. NYRA showed him running down the stairs at the spa , the camera guys must have been tipped off.

Could it be that he had to run to the bathroom?

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I agree, the very best horseplayers don't play tournaments...and the reason isn't just because of the collusion and the vig. Today's horseracing tournaments don't resemble the way the real professional horseplayers play the game. Do you suppose that there is even a single professional horseplayer out there who exists by solely making win-bets? If the tournament directors want the very best horseplayers to turn out to those tournaments...then they should model the tournaments after the way the real professionals play the game. Give the players a minimum and a maximum wager that they need to make for each stage of the tournament...and then let the PLAYERS decide how to bet that money, and what sort of wagers to make. When you allow only win/place bets, then you alienate the exotics players...who contribute the vast majority of the money to the mutuel pools.

And, what's this bullshit about forcing the tournament players to bet on every single race of a particular track? Why not use the races of TWO tracks...and allow the players to wager on the 9 races of their choice? Do the poker tournaments force the players to bet on every single poker hand?

Read your post again and yes your right in that the majority of tourneys don't have exotics, Mth is only WPS. But some like BCBC and Belmont and SoCal do allow *some*exotics. I've seen DDs but never P3 4 5s in tourneys, maybe somewhere.

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

In the WHT pilot, which is on youtube, there was a final table of eight and they slowly got eliminated as the "blinds" went up...I was sure I was going to hate it like Horseplayers and that terrible Win, Place and Show nonsense, but it actually was pretty good. It needs some tweaks but the show has some potential.

I posted that here to crickets, thought it was interesting, oh well:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...d.php?t=146641

[Suff]

Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses

I posted that here to crickets, thought it was interesting, oh well:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...d.php?t=146641

Thanks. May I pontificate?. Those are tables are no good. Who plays horses on tables like that? I get lap dances sitting at chairs and tables like that.

It all sounds to canned.

I find that more often in west coast players.
The Del-mar handicapper John Lie sounds like he's handicapping under oath. I only talk like that when there's a Judge in the room.

Also, WPT has hotties floating around. Get some eye-candy.

Listening to that for 10 minutes, I just deducted 2 points from Kinchen.

[CheckMark]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

Is this JK checking in?

No it’s a 16 year old handicapper your talking to.

[CheckMark]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Checkmark is a teenager, who is into Handicapping, lives in Canada, and has his own picks website too! He hopes to get into the business by getting a job at one of his home tracks. I think he's near woodbine. * we became bff's in the Saratoga play along thread Be nice to him please.

And that ladies and gents is pure friendship!