Jockeys not protecting rail position ??

[big frank]

I have watched a lot of races from ALL tracks the past 2 months.... i can't believe how many times a day i see jocks giving up the rail on the backstretch and on the far turn..... i am not a disgruntled player because i have won and lost bets because of this..... it seems some riders are just unaware and seem to get caught off guard especially on the backstretch giving up rail position .. if the rail is dead that is fine... and if you drift on the turn to take a contender wide that is also fine..... any opinions ?

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by big frank

... and if you drift on the turn to take a contender wide that is also fine..... any opinions ?

My understanding of geometry, which was admittedly my worst math subject, says that drifting out on the turn to take a contender wide does not improve your chances of besting that horse, but just increases the chance of both horses losing. So the only reason to deliberately take a contender wide is to set up a favorable trip for a different horse.

[dilanesp]

I've never ridden a horse, so please take this with several grains of salt- but I imagine a horse going 40 miles an hour around an unbanked turn of a racetrack generates a fair amount of centripetal acceleration, which would mean that the horse's tendency would be to drift out at least some. So the rider may have to fight the horse a bit to keep him or her down on the rail and keep it closed off.

But again, I am not the person to talk to on this- if someone here has ridden horses around turns, please correct me if this is wrong.

[TonyK@HSH]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I've never ridden a horse, so please take this with several grains of salt- but I imagine a horse going 40 miles an hour around an unbanked turn of a racetrack generates a fair amount of centripetal acceleration, which would mean that the horse's tendency would be to drift out at least some. So the rider may have to fight the horse a bit to keep him or her down on the rail and keep it closed off.

But again, I am not the person to talk to on this- if someone here has ridden horses around turns, please correct me if this is wrong.

I imagine the horse that stayed on the rail and slipped through was subject to the same forces around the turn....

[westernmassbob]

Originally Posted by big frank

I have watched a lot of races from ALL tracks the past 2 months.... i can't believe how many times a day i see jocks giving up the rail on the backstretch and on the far turn.....

I’ve noticed this as well but one can only surmise that most of the time it’s a strategy. Is it a strategy based on the rail seeming to be “dead”? Maybe some of the time. I don’t think a lot of people realize what kind of planning and studying goes into each race by the jock/trainer. I guarantee there is always a reason why a jockey doesn’t protect the rail.

[cj]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I've never ridden a horse, so please take this with several grains of salt- but I imagine a horse going 40 miles an hour around an unbanked turn of a racetrack generates a fair amount of centripetal acceleration, which would mean that the horse's tendency would be to drift out at least some. So the rider may have to fight the horse a bit to keep him or her down on the rail and keep it closed off.

But again, I am not the person to talk to on this- if someone here has ridden horses around turns, please correct me if this is wrong.

All tracks have at least some banking, right? Some are obviously greater than others.

[TonyK@HSH]

Originally Posted by cj

All tracks have at least some banking, right? Some are obviously greater than others.

CJ, all tracks I'm aware of are banked to some degree so water drains, typically to the inside or outside rail.

[Robert Fischer]

some different things/issues going on...

you've got the general effects of the 'physics stuff'

then you've got a rider possibly(hopefully) making a tactical decision
[does he 'hold' the rail position to force rivals to go around this bunched up field? Does he herd wide to affect the other breakaway rival who is his only real threat?]

and then there are times when a rider must decide whether to ease off of the rail with an empty pace factor while falling back

[Robert Fischer]

Horseracing is funny, in that you can have races where everyone is 'gaming' everyone in this 'chess match'. The race conditions, uncoupled entries (and allegedly other loyalties), the pace, contenders whose connections set out to do exactly what is right to provide the best outcome...

Then, you'll see another race where there is a hopeless 50-1 shot who quits every time, and he's a big grey horse that you couldn't mistake, and yet some jockey will move prematurely with a contender to challenge that horse!

[Bustin Stones]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Horseracing is funny, in that you can have races where everyone is 'gaming' everyone in this 'chess match'. The race conditions, uncoupled entries (and allegedly other loyalties), the pace, contenders whose connections set out to do exactly what is right to provide the best outcome...

Then, you'll see another race where there is a hopeless 50-1 shot who quits every time, and he's a big grey horse that you couldn't mistake, and yet some jockey will move prematurely with a contender to challenge that horse!

And it's always my horse. I tend to say aloud "what the hell do you think you're doing?". I'm a suspicious sort, so, of course I theorize he did it on purpose.

[ranchwest]

Sometimes it can be a case of the trailing jockey yelling at the jockey ahead, letting him know that he's got horse and if the horse impeding him doesn't have horse, then he wants the rail.