Handicapping systems

[masterpeg]

I have tried several different systems in a short 3 year on and off again love affair with racing. I've read all the books and tried Quinn, Quirin and Brohammers ( a lot of time goes into it, but thats where the fun is for me....i like to solve puzzles and these are the ultimate puzzles). If you use a commercialized sytem (ie. published handicappers system, or one of the many software systems that I always wondered about), even if it is just a part of your overall handicapping, and you are successfull in the long run with it....could you let me in on it. I would like to try my hand at all I can get my hands on. Even if you just play certain angles.

And one more question...how long do you spend handicapping one race?
I usually spend about 45-60 min per race....and since I haven't won much I know Im wasting my time, but again, its fun for me, and I really don't know any way to speed it up....I do all the pace numbers of the contenders per Brohammers "Modern Pace Handicapping" book.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I assumed you were asking how long per day, not per race.
People with some strict types of races they play or eliminations of horses should not spend as much time as doing full handicapping.
Some overlays will jump out at you with experience.

[masterpeg]

I actually meant per race....I guess, from your question, you don't spend too much time on a race...

I spend a lot of time, some of it choosing pacelines, adjusting fractions and inputting them in the spreadsheet, then finally the analysis of the pace and any other variables. Like I said, the process is fun for me anyway...guess im a stat geek, but the results aren't there yet.

[kenwoodallpromos]

With systems I use that have eliminatiopns, I go through the form horse by horse and do the eliminations, then go back for the risk/value assessments subjectively.
Another system I use only low-odds horses whose running style and running lines fit the track speed.
I usually do not do full handicapping or use times.

[kenwoodallpromos]

With systems I use that have eliminatiopns, I go through the form horse by horse and do the eliminations, then go back for the risk/value assessments subjectively.
Another system I use only low-odds horses whose running style and running lines fit the track speed.
I usually do not do full handicapping or use times.
A form of 40 racves takes about 2-3 hours depending on if I am using 1, 2, or 3 of my systems.

[kenwoodallpromos]

My brother loses and spends too much time trying to outguess the connections.
I study stats and all aspects of horses and racing, but I have to spend time figuring out whyat makes common sense and what is wrong notions by bettors that become common mistakes.

[Diamond K]

I had one of my horses running one day. I came to the track all dressed in favorite sport coat, tie, shoes shined. I brought the wife and two of the kids. My trainer also got decked out in his best attire. We were sitting in my box when a track acquaintance approached and asked "think your horse has a shot to get a small part of it"?

We won the race, had photo taken as usual, and soon ran into the acquaintance who said 'nice going...but he just didn't figure'

A few days later I had another horse running, was sitting alone in my box, very comfortable in jeans and shirt when acquaintance approaches and says 'your a dead lock cinch to win'. Wonder what kenwoodalls brother would have thought would happen?

Some time later he told me he can never get lucky on my horses.

[kenwoodallpromos]

My brother goes by trainers' duds all the time, ewspecially when the horse is dropped twice; but you obviously have a smarter trainer than he bets on.
I'm wondering what the jeans and t-shirt means as to "trainer intent".

[masterpeg]

thought I'd let you know how I did today after all your help.
I played 4 races at Del Mar and had won on two win tickets while missing the superfecta in the 10th by the 4th taking 4th place. that was agonizing, but I am happy to be up 22 dolloars going into tomorrow. I used my old system, the system another posted (especially for me) and using formulator 4's beyers chart for each race I just highlighted the top 3 beyers in key categories and added them up. Believe it or not, the beyer system had 3 winners on three out of the 4 races, after the races I used the same beyer angle for the turf races and it had 1 of 2 winners. It doesn't do well on place and show.

I only played dirt non maiden races today, tomorrow ill try the pick four (guarantee 400k). I missed a huge price 13-1 by simply not betting the beyer angle (I didn't even consider the horse, nor did the public i guess). That made me sick, but I hadn't yet caught on to the pattern. I hope it maintains for tomorrow.

[Diamond K]

I forgot to point out that among a few hundred win photo's I rarely if ever wasn't wearing a sport coat or suit.

I was in the savings and loan business in Chicago and even when running in Florida I wore a sport coat. Kind of my uniform.

I also had the largest thoroughbred insurance company outside Lloyds so most of my time was in my trailer at the track for I insured most all horses at the track I was at. In short, I would wear jeans if I thought the horse didn't have a shot. All track vets were sort of on my payroll for I paid them for exams on the horses insured. The trainers ordered the exam and I paid the vet direct. Jules Fink put all his eastern insurance business through the company and it was a sizeable account with some great horses. Some people know of him as one of the 'speed boys' of handicap lore.

Those were the days of angles but nothing like anyone dreams of today.

[masterpeg]

hey diamond....are you high?

what the heck are you talking about? lol
I can't get through 2 lines of posts without saying wtf?

[andicap]

I know what Diamond K was talking about.

Sounds like he has a lot of great stories about "back in the day" when people REALLY played angles because most didn't have access to fancy speed and pace figures. Except for Jules Fink and his crowd.

And I've heard about that angle -- look at the owners and/or trainer and see if they're dressed up to have their picture taken in the winner circle.

Of course it doesn't work at Saratoga where everyone gets dressed up anyway if you have a horse running.
(One of my favorite things about the Spa is going over to the paddock and seeing the "Swells" dressed to the nines in the ring with their horses.

[masterpeg]

Oh..ok..I get it now...lol

I just re read both posts, I didn't take him for a horse owner. rereading it with that assumption is does make sense.

[Tom]

Originally posted by andicap
.....(One of my favorite things about the Spa is going over to the paddock and seeing the "Swells" dressed to the nines in the ring with their horses.

I used to love to go stand by the clubhouse side where all the rich people were sweltering in their jackets and ties and pour a cold beer over my head, dosing my tee shirt and shorts, then going, very loud,"Ahhhhhhhhhh!"
Sick boy, I.

[garyoz]

Originally Posted by Diamond K

I forgot to point out that among a few hundred win photo's I rarely if ever wasn't wearing a sport coat or suit.

I was in the savings and loan business in Chicago and even when running in Florida I wore a sport coat. Kind of my uniform.

I also had the largest thoroughbred insurance company outside Lloyds so most of my time was in my trailer at the track for I insured most all horses at the track I was at. In short, I would wear jeans if I thought the horse didn't have a shot. All track vets were sort of on my payroll for I paid them for exams on the horses insured. The trainers ordered the exam and I paid the vet direct. Jules Fink put all his eastern insurance business through the company and it was a sizeable account with some great horses. Some people know of him as one of the 'speed boys' of handicap lore.

Those were the days of angles but nothing like anyone dreams of today.

Back in the good 'ol days--keep the stories coming Diamond whenever you have the time and urge.

I grew up betting horses in the '60's--even without figs--it was a much more fun sport. There were seasons--nothing like opening day after no racing in a region for several months--tracks had real personalities--some of my greatest memories playing $2 parlays through my father's bookie and waiting for the results in the newspaper to see how I did...Cursing M.H. Van Berg and his favorites who dominated the midwest--but he was a saint compared to today's super trainers. Nowadays the game is too much about grind. But still the name of the game is all about connections.