|
|
09-04-2020, 05:42 PM
|
#31
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz
Andy,
That's kind of the point, isn't it?
Racing has not done it via the states, so now the feds are stepping in.
Not convinced the outcome will be a good one, but change has been needed for a long time.
|
Dave,
My point is that nobody agrees on what should be changed. What makes this a national issue?
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
|
|
|
09-04-2020, 06:02 PM
|
#32
|
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,921
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Dave,
My point is that nobody agrees on what should be changed. What makes this a national issue?
|
I get that point and it is valid.
Still a need.
|
|
|
09-04-2020, 07:47 PM
|
#33
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete
"Hold my beer..."
|
Mine too
Name one thing the Government managed well?
|
|
|
09-04-2020, 08:24 PM
|
#34
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Dave,
My point is that nobody agrees on what should be changed. What makes this a national issue?
|
Nobody can agree on the proper size of the defense budget or 100 other items in the federal budget either. Doesn't mean they aren't national issues.
The states can't do this. There's too much regulatory capture from the interested parties.
|
|
|
09-04-2020, 11:57 PM
|
#35
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Nobody can agree on the proper size of the defense budget or 100 other items in the federal budget either. Doesn't mean they aren't national issues.
The states can't do this. There's too much regulatory capture from the interested parties.
|
Defending the US is a national issue. Deciding whether or not a horse should be allowed to use a certain drug is not.
If there is such an outcry for clean racing why wouldn't a track, a state or a circuit do it? Their toteboards would blow up with all the action.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 12:14 AM
|
#36
|
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,921
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
If there is such an outcry for clean racing why wouldn't a track, a state or a circuit do it? Their toteboards would blow up with all the action.
|
From your mouth to God's ears.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 12:44 AM
|
#37
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,668
|
New and uniform regulations?? Let's start by putting stiff penalties behind the ones we have.
More bureaucracy can help only if oversight bodies both wield and (routinely) exercise complete authority over stewards and proceed fearlessly despite the traditionally intimidating specter of lawsuits.
Proof of violation in racing is rarely so clear as to be uncontestable, and no perpetrator is ever going to walk in and confess. So any proposed higher authority needs the guts, job security, and legal resources to act decisively based on judgement calls.
Last edited by mountainman; 09-05-2020 at 12:50 AM.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 11:18 AM
|
#38
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,625
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Racing is not like a league where rules need to be uniform throughout. Each track or jurisdiction should be able to make their own rules. Olympic qualifying events need to be run using the same rules everywhere or else participants would have an unfair advantage or disadvantage. The results of a horse race in Louisiana is not affected by the results of a race in California.
|
Believe me, I understand the points you are making.
However, I can't count how many time I've seen a horse not run particularly well at NYRA, jump up big out of town, and then come back to NYRA. I have no idea how to handle that.
I can track shippers from that other circuit, look at which trainer it was, check for equipment changes etc.. but I'm guessing as to whether that horse moved up because of a change in "healthcare" that can't be duplicated in NY or a change in form. Then once I get suspicious of a circuit, I'm really screwed. I can't trust any horses from there even though some of them may simply be very good.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 11:46 AM
|
#39
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Defending the US is a national issue. Deciding whether or not a horse should be allowed to use a certain drug is not.
If there is such an outcry for clean racing why wouldn't a track, a state or a circuit do it? Their toteboards would blow up with all the action.
|
Regulating horse racing is also a national issue. States are in competition with each other. That's why the CHRB felt it couldn't disqualify Baffert's Santa Anita Derby winner. Baffert is too important to California racing.
National regulators have no interest in protecting the big players.
This isn't just true in horse racing by the way. OSHA, for instance, has to be a federal agency, because states would allow big employers to have unsafe factories to avoid losing a bunch of jobs to a state with lax regulators. It's called the "race to the bottom" or "lemons equilibrium".
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 02:11 PM
|
#40
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Regulating horse racing is also a national issue. States are in competition with each other. That's why the CHRB felt it couldn't disqualify Baffert's Santa Anita Derby winner. Baffert is too important to California racing.
National regulators have no interest in protecting the big players.
This isn't just true in horse racing by the way. OSHA, for instance, has to be a federal agency, because states would allow big employers to have unsafe factories to avoid losing a bunch of jobs to a state with lax regulators. It's called the "race to the bottom" or "lemons equilibrium".
|
Where is the competitive edge for a track /state to allow or not allow drugs? If the demand for drug-free racing was strong then there would be a rush to go drug-free.
Your OSHA example was good for factories but I am not seeing the unfair advantage situation in racing.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 02:34 PM
|
#41
|
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,921
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
New and uniform regulations?? Let's start by putting stiff penalties behind the ones we have.
More bureaucracy can help only if oversight bodies both wield and (routinely) exercise complete authority over stewards and proceed fearlessly despite the traditionally intimidating specter of lawsuits.
Proof of violation in racing is rarely so clear as to be uncontestable, and no perpetrator is ever going to walk in and confess. So any proposed higher authority needs the guts, job security, and legal resources to act decisively based on judgement calls.
|
THIS.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 04:50 PM
|
#42
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 371
|
Be careful what you wish for. Imagine somebody taking over this national body and shutting down the sport.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 05:58 PM
|
#43
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by horsefan2019
Be careful what you wish for. Imagine somebody taking over this national body and shutting down the sport.
|
Congress can do that already. Any time they want.
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 06:00 PM
|
#44
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Where is the competitive edge for a track /state to allow or not allow drugs? If the demand for drug-free racing was strong then there would be a rush to go drug-free.
Your OSHA example was good for factories but I am not seeing the unfair advantage situation in racing.
|
You assume state regulators respond to bettors.
What if, instead, they respond to local horsemen who use drugs?
|
|
|
09-05-2020, 08:14 PM
|
#45
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
You assume state regulators respond to bettors.
What if, instead, they respond to local horsemen who use drugs?
|
I would say that would defy all probabilities with 34 states siding with drug using owners and trainers.
I assume that state regulators act in the best interests of the state.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|