Is NY ever going to introduce a pick five?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

Pick 6 pool today at Belmont was $72,480 - a total disgrace for a weekend card in NY. Many Double/P3 pools had more money in the pools today.

This has to be an act.

[andtheyreoff]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

Pick 6 pool today at Belmont was $72,480 - a total disgrace for a weekend card in NY. Many Double/P3 pools had more money in the pools today.

Despite the tragedy of not having a lot of money in a total gimmick pool on a day with a lot of tough races, handle for the card was $14,146,825, up from $10,173,214 on the last Saturday in June last year.*

*- even though there was one more race this year, the handle per race increased to $1,286,075, up from $1,017,321 last year.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

Pick 6 pool today at Belmont was $72,480 - a total disgrace for a weekend card in NY. Many Double/P3 pools had more money in the pools today.

72k Is a big number for NY.

A pick-5 would have had $300k - $400k in handle.

[classhandicapper]

I don't play either the Pick 5 or Pick 6. Heck, I rarely even play a Pick 4. But I don't see the logic of preferring pick 6 customers over other customers.

Even if adding a Pick 5 wound up hurting the Pick 6 handle a little and a few Pick 6 specialists with big bankrolls started whining because they don't have as big an edge over the suckers, that should not be NYRA's primary focus.

The idea for the track is to maximize the total handle!

If there are a bunch of people not playing the pick 6 now whose handle would rise if there was a Pick 5, then I think it should probably be implemented. Somehow, I think the Pick 6 carry over specialists are going to continue playing that bet even if there is a Pick 5 and the Pick 6 pool is a touch smaller.

I don't see the upside of enriching people like Steve Crist etc.. at the expense of players with smaller bankrolls that would rather be playing the Pick 5. In fact, I think it's a HORRIBLE idea.

This is mostly just a math problem.

Which way would the total handle be bigger?

Which way would NYRA net more cash to the bottom line?

Which way would attract more new players?

If you don't know the answer from researching what happened at other tracks, then implement it as an experiment and see what happens.

If it's a net positive keep it and if it's not can it.

Preferring the Pick 6 or Pick 6 players to others for some other reason seems like a bad business idea.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by jelly

A pick-5 would have had $300k - $400k in handle.

That would be incorrect. But, why should this post be any different than any of your other ones.

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by jelly
A pick-5 would have had $300k - $400k in handle

Originally Posted by the little guy

That would be incorrect. But, why should this post be any different than any of your other ones.

Maybe not $300k - $400k but a lot more handle then the pick 6 pool in NY when there is not a carryover like Saturday's pick 6 handle of $72,481.

Hollywood .50 pick 5 handle for:

Thursday --------- $191,439
Friday------------- $277,775
Saturday---------- $267,207


________
David-LV

[David-LV]

Pick 6 handle at Belmont:

Wed----------- $176,012 with a carryover
Thur---------- $43,565 no carryover
Fri------------ $174,154 with a carryover
Sat----------- $72,481 no carryover

It appears that Belmont needs a double carryover to surpass Hollywood's one day .50 pick 5 handle.

There is no logical reasoning why New York Racing will not give the .50 pick 5 bet a chance.

_______
David-LV

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by David-LV

Originally Posted by jelly
A pick-5 would have had $300k - $400k in handle




Maybe not $300k - $400k but a lot more handle then the pick 6 pool in NY when there is not a carryover like Saturday's pick 6 handle of $72,481.

Hollywood .50 pick 5 handle for:

Thursday --------- $191,439
Friday------------- $277,775
Saturday---------- $267,207


________
David-LV

California gets much bigger Pick-6 handles and, more importantly, their Pick-5 starts much later in the afternoon in other time zones than one would in NY.

[David-LV]

Originally Posted by the little guy

California gets much bigger Pick-6 handles and, more importantly, their Pick-5 starts much later in the afternoon in other time zones than one would in NY.

It does not hurt to give it a try, because when Hollywood put the pick 5 in they also had their doubts, but they went ahead and gave it a try and it was successful.

About being to early in the day I don't know about that being a problem as Belmont handled a total of $959,875 on all bets starting with and including the first race on Saturday.

________
David-LV

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by David-LV

It does not hurt to give it a try, because when Hollywood put the pick 5 in they also had their doubts, but they went ahead and gave it a try and it was successful.

About being to early in the day I don't know about that being a problem as Belmont handled a total of $959,875 on all bets starting with and including the first race on Saturday.

________
David-LV

The problem with most internet threads and posts of this kind is that they never know the actual story...and unfortunately there is frequently a lot of unfair conjecture and blame that accompanies that.

I have no argument with replacing the early Pick-4 with a Pick-5, with a 50 cent minimum, that starts in race 1.

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by David-LV

Pick 6 handle at Belmont:

Wed----------- $176,012 with a carryover
Thur---------- $43,565 no carryover
Fri------------ $174,154 with a carryover
Sat----------- $72,481 no carryover

It appears that Belmont needs a double carryover to surpass Hollywood's one day .50 pick 5 handle.

There is no logical reasoning why New York Racing will not give the .50 pick 5 bet a chance.

_______
David-LV

Time zones people. Time zones.

[jelly]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I don't play either the Pick 5 or Pick 6. Heck, I rarely even play a Pick 4. But I don't see the logic of preferring pick 6 customers over other customers.

Even if adding a Pick 5 wound up hurting the Pick 6 handle a little and a few Pick 6 specialists with big bankrolls started whining because they don't have as big an edge over the suckers, that should not be NYRA's primary focus.

The idea for the track is to maximize the total handle!

If there are a bunch of people not playing the pick 6 now whose handle would rise if there was a Pick 5, then I think it should probably be implemented. Somehow, I think the Pick 6 carry over specialists are going to continue playing that bet even if there is a Pick 5 and the Pick 6 pool is a touch smaller.

I don't see the upside of enriching people like Steve Crist etc.. at the expense of players with smaller bankrolls that would rather be playing the Pick 5. In fact, I think it's a HORRIBLE idea.

This is mostly just a math problem.

Which way would the total handle be bigger?

Which way would NYRA net more cash to the bottom line?

Which way would attract more new players?

If you don't know the answer from researching what happened at other tracks, then implement it as an experiment and see what happens.

If it's a net positive keep it and if it's not can it.

Preferring the Pick 6 or Pick 6 players to others for some other reason seems like a bad business idea.

You,re absolutely right,everyday they go without a late pick 5 the more money NYRA loses.

It also exposes how poorly run the NYRA continues to be.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't wait until NYRA starts the pick-5. All of racing's problems will finally be solved.

[Vinman]

Originally Posted by the little guy

The problem with most internet threads and posts of this kind is that they never know the actual story...and unfortunately there is frequently a lot of unfair conjecture and blame that accompanies that.

I have no argument with replacing the early Pick-4 with a Pick-5, with a 50 cent minimum, that starts in race 1.

Andy...

I proposed earlier in this thread a 50 cent Pick 5 on the last 5 races. Yes, this would put such a Pick 5 in direct competition with the Pick 6 and therefore be "counterproductive"? Not so fast. The advantages of having the Pick 5 on the last 5 races:

o Better quality of Pick 5 races to play, including the stake(s) if any, as opposed to the early races, which almost always have a much higher percentage of maiden races with first time starters and first time turfers. For this reason I virtually never play the early Pick 4. Yes, those type of races do have a purpose and must be run, but not as part of my "Pick N" parimutuel experience. I'd much prefer to focus on the later races, where I can eliminate a lot more horses.

o By having the Pick 5 on the last 5 races, there is much more time to handicap it, especially after late scratches and adjust for any possible surface switches that may occur after the card begins, caused by a downpour just before the 4th race, for example. This would also be true for people playing from the west coast, who would have to react to late changes and get their bets in my 10am their time if the Pick 5 began with race 1. Not happening.

o Bigger handle. Those west coast folks would have until around 12:30 their time, for NYRA race 6 with an approximate 3:30pm post. That's ample time for them to get to the track and scope things out and get their bets in, vs a Pick 5 post of 10am for them. Huge difference. As Doug Donn of Gulfstream used to say, "We're in the business of selling mutuel tickets". NYRA will sell a hell of a lot more of them on a Pick 5 that begins with race 6 (race 7 for an 11 race weekend card) at 3:30pm than on race 1 at 1pm.

o Perhaps the best reason to hold the Pick 5 on the last 5 races is that if you are playing the Pick 6 on a carryover day and get blown out by a bomb in leg 1, your already have your Pick 5 play at the ready for the very next race!

Having the Pick 5 start with the first race "sounds logical" because that's what they do in California....avoid competition with the "sacred cow" Pick 6. But NYRA has a major market in California to draw extra handle from by starting the Pick 5 two and a half hours later, while California has no such large market to draw from that gets out of bed 3 hours later than they do.

Its not necessarily about "balancing the card" with Pick N wagers....If you play the 1pm Pick 5, your money will be tied up until after the Pick 6 begins anyway - if we're talking as many as 10 races on the card.

What it should really be about is maximizing the overall handle and of course, doing what is best for the players. If there's a big traffic jam at exit 12 on the Northway en route to Saratoga, I'm sure most fans would much prefer a late 50 cent Pick 5 than an early one. In fact, they'd prefer it even there was no traffic at all.

Vinman

[GARY Z]

[QUOTE=jelly]Because the Steve Crist(you know,the one looking out for you) types don't want It.


Jelly:

I'd agree Steve looks out for "you".

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