Jack Van Berg - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

toussaud · 02-26-2010, 04:33 PM

Now I know the man is a legend and that's what is really making me scdratch my head.

what happened?

I mean.. i'm not even saying the man should have derby horses or anything. I know he's a life long grinding type claimer trainer. but i haven't seen him at under 10 to 1 in any race in any race in over a year. he hasn't won a race at santa anita all meet.

do trainers lose "it"? I mean you'd think at some point he'd just drop one somewhere to get off the o for mark or something.

Moyers Pond · 02-26-2010, 04:43 PM

He is known to have said veterinarians and drugs have ruined the sport and in this day in age if you are not pumping your horses full of drugs it is a lot harder business.

There are some guys who make it like his former assistant Mott, and another guy born in the 1930's like Barclay Tagg, but for the most part the big name successful guys love what is in their veterinarians bags, or should I say on their veterinarians trucks.

Backstretch Pirate · 02-26-2010, 05:15 PM

Mr. Van Berg refuses to juice, so he doesn't get the horses anymore.

toussaud · 02-26-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backstretch Pirate

Mr. Van Berg refuses to juice, so he doesn't get the horses anymore.

it has to be more complciated than that.

1. i refuse to believe EVERY TRAINER IN AMERICA juices horses.

by juice we are saying that every trainer uses steriods. not bute. not lasix. juice=steroids.

if he refuses to use bute, an anti inflammatory than i wouldn't send him anything etiehr

but even more than that, at some point he was one of the best trainers in the world.

he's running 30 to 1 in 8k claimers for crying out loud.

Moyers Pond · 02-26-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toussaud

it has to be more complciated than that.

1. i refuse to believe EVERY TRAINER IN AMERICA juices horses.

by juice we are saying that every trainer uses steriods. not bute. not lasix. juice=steroids.

if he refuses to use bute, an anti inflammatory than i wouldn't send him anything etiehr

but even more than that, at some point he was one of the best trainers in the world.

he's running 30 to 1 in 8k claimers for crying out loud.

Every trainer doesn't, just the top trainers. There are a few great horseman like Mott and Tagg that have good owners that stick with them, but for the most part the big stables (Van Berg was once 250 horses himself) are very attached to their veterinarians.

toussaud · 02-26-2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moyers Pond

Every trainer doesn't, just the top trainers. There are a few great horseman like Mott and Tagg that have good owners that stick with them, but for the most part the big stables (Van Berg was once 250 horses himself) are very attached to their veterinarians.

I mean i'm not asking for him to be a top trainer

there is a lot of grayness between being steve assumssen, and being 32 to 1 in every 8k claimer of the meet.

Hanover1 · 02-26-2010, 05:35 PM

Ever consider that Jack is just winding down and keeping a small shed to keep busy? A good friend of mine happens to be in the HOF on the harness side, has won legs of the TC, and his father won the TC in fact (he is also a HOFer), ran upwards of 100 a year, and is now down to 2 head, and likes it that way....claims he cannot make enough money playing golf, even though he once played with Dimaggio, Palmer, and others as a good friend of several high profile owners. What else ya gonna do? Crossword puzzles dont suit trainers as a rule.....

toussaud · 02-26-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanover1

Ever consider that Jack is just winding down and keeping a small shed to keep busy? A good friend of mine happens to be in the HOF on the harness side, has won legs of the TC, and his father won the TC in fact (he is also a HOFer), ran upwards of 100 a year, and is now down to 2 head, and likes it that way....claims he cannot make enough money playing golf, even though he once played with Dimaggio, Palmer, and others as a good friend of several high profile owners. What else ya gonna do? Crossword puzzles dont suit trainers as a rule.....

what does that have to do with not winning?

I don't expect the man to be baffert or anything but the man hasn't come close to winning in quite a while and i'm curious to the reasons why.

i still expect a trainer of his level to win every once in a while with what he has.

Backstretch Pirate · 02-26-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toussaud

I mean i'm not asking for him to be a top trainer

there is a lot of grayness between being steve assumssen, and being 32 to 1 in every 8k claimer of the meet.

Quite simply, he does not have any live horses. 73 years old, and not juicing.
Those cheap 8k claimers you are talking about need the meds more than anything else on the track.

Hanover1 · 02-26-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backstretch Pirate

Mr. Van Berg refuses to juice, so he doesn't get the horses anymore.

A statement with very little solid evidence.....It suggests that owners only want trainers that violate the rules. Irresponsible..............

Spalding No! · 02-26-2010, 05:39 PM

From what I understand, Jack Van Berg blew a fortune on an unsuccessful ranch he had built in the middle of nowhere.

His major problem seems to be his stock, which has declined precipitously since his main owners like Clarence Schaurber (sp?) and John Franks passed on.

As far as his contention that veterinarians and medications have ruined the game, its a bit ironic that he has been threatened multiple times with sanctions from the stewards for failing to pay his vet bills.

Clearly he had no problem utilizing them when he had the money to do so (not to mention, his most recognizable horse, Alysheba, not only was heavily reliant on Lasix--at least at 3--but also suffered from an entrapped epiglottis which was discovered and treated prior to his big turnaround in the Blue Grass).

Hanover1 · 02-26-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toussaud

what does that have to do with not winning?

I don't expect the man to be baffert or anything but the man hasn't come close to winning in quite a while and i'm curious to the reasons why.

i still expect a trainer of his level to win every once in a while with what he has.

Its about keeping busy, period.

Backstretch Pirate · 02-26-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanover1

A statement with very little solid evidence.....It suggests that owners only want trainers that violate the rules. Irresponsible..............

Hanover, you talk like a big trainer, but you're not. So you can stop with the all-knowing tidbits.

Hanover1 · 02-26-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

From what I understand, Jack Van Berg blew a fortune on an unsuccessful ranch he had built in the middle of nowhere.

His major problem seems to be his stock, which has declined precipitously since his main owners like Clarence Schaurber (sp?) and John Franks passed on.

As far as his contention that veterinarians and medications have ruined the game, its a bit ironic that he has been threatened multiple times with sanctions from the stewards for failing to pay his vet bills.

Clearly he had no problem utilizing them when he had the money to do so (not to mention, his most recognizable horse, Alysheba, not only was heavily reliant on Lasix--at least at 3--but also suffered from an entrapped epiglottis which was discovered and treated prior to his big turnaround in the Blue Grass).

We are getting closer to the truth here........

Backstretch Pirate · 02-26-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanover1

We are getting closer to the truth here........

Really, talk about irresponsible talk. Get real!