Gate Placement for Aqueduct Turf - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Michael · 11-11-2021, 06:54 PM

Does anyone know the story with the gate placement on the main track? If you look back to November last year ZERO horses won out of the 1 hole on the main turf track. This year for race three they pushed the gates all the way to the far outside of the track..... and then later in the day they moved it closer to the inner side of the course.

Does anyone actually know when they're moving this gate? they're advertising "no temp rail" and just sneakyly shift the whole GATE to parts of the track they've never place it before.

I don't know what's going on anymore

Tom · 11-11-2021, 07:26 PM

The gate sliding at the start wouldn't, IMHO, won't have the effect of a temp rail.

Btw, do know the difference between Aqueduct and prison?

You can get out of prison for good behavior.

BarchCapper · 11-11-2021, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

Does anyone know the story with the gate placement on the main track? If you look back to November last year ZERO horses won out of the 1 hole on the main turf track. This year for race three they pushed the gates all the way to the far outside of the track..... and then later in the day they moved it closer to the inner side of the course.

Does anyone actually know when they're moving this gate? they're advertising "no temp rail" and just sneakyly shift the whole GATE to parts of the track they've never place it before.

I don't know what's going on anymore

In actuality, it was consistent throughout the card. Aqueduct has two turf courses - inner and outer.

The inner turf course had all the gate placements on the inside rail. The outer turf course had all the gate placements on the outside rail.

BarchCapper · 11-11-2021, 07:48 PM

As a followup, I went and looked at the first three days of last year's Aqueduct fall meet, and the situation was the same. Outer turf races (designated in Equibase charts AS outer turf) were started with the gate placed against the outside rail. Inner turf races (which in Equibase charts are just designated as "on the turf") started with the gate placed against the inside rail.

I will note that in just looking at the first 3 days of last year's meet - ALL the races on the outer turf were at 6 furlongs - so you would not notice a dramatic difference. The 2-turn routes were run on the inner (main? old?) turf course.

Today's start to the Aqueduct meet featured both route races on the inner turf and 6 furlong sprints on the outer turf. HOWEVER, there was a one mile two-turn turf race on the outer, and so that outside rail gate placement would stand out.

I can't say if there were eventually outer turf route races last year or not - not gonna deep dive that far into the result charts/replays.

Hope this helps a little.

Michael · 11-11-2021, 08:16 PM

I'm from NY and know the Aqueduct fairly well... spent many misguided weekends freezing and hanging out under the heater by the paddock.

This is what I'm talking about with regards to the Outer track from race 3.

I likely worded my inital post wrong as I'm fairly zonked from this past weekend and need some sleep. However, this third race had the gate setup much different than past years.

Michael · 11-11-2021, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

The gate sliding at the start wouldn't, IMHO, won't have the effect of a temp rail.

Btw, do know the difference between Aqueduct and prison?

You can get out of prison for good behavior.

It's almost as if I'm being puished by the racing gods. Don't ask me why but I somehow always take trips to the big A in the middle of winter and always leave saying "Never again!"

I hope I don't make the trip this year

Whatever happened to the robbery that happened a while back.... wonder if they caught the people who pulled off the heist.

Michael · 11-11-2021, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarchCapper

As a followup, I went and looked at the first three days of last year's Aqueduct fall meet, and the situation was the same. Outer turf races (designated in Equibase charts AS outer turf) were started with the gate placed against the outside rail. Inner turf races (which in Equibase charts are just designated as "on the turf") started with the gate placed against the inside rail.

I will note that in just looking at the first 3 days of last year's meet - ALL the races on the outer turf were at 6 furlongs - so you would not notice a dramatic difference. The 2-turn routes were run on the inner (main? old?) turf course.

Today's start to the Aqueduct meet featured both route races on the inner turf and 6 furlong sprints on the outer turf. HOWEVER, there was a one mile two-turn turf race on the outer, and so that outside rail gate placement would stand out.

I can't say if there were eventually outer turf route races last year or not - not gonna deep dive that far into the result charts/replays.

Hope this helps a little.

Maybe you're just right and I'm out of my mind. I had to re-read your comment. I need sleep!

BarchCapper · 11-11-2021, 08:56 PM

So I went a little further into last year November, and found a route race on the outer track - photo of the start attached:

The more I thought about it - the more the "inner turf-inner rail" "outer turf-outer rail" gate placement made sense.

What hauls away the gate - a tractor! You don't want the heavy tractor pressing down into the turf course, so you pull the gate to the infield for the inner course, and to the dirt track for the outer course, without having to run the tractor on the course itself.

Michael · 11-11-2021, 09:21 PM

@BarchCapper Solid detective work! Your brain is working much better than mine. I think I blew a fuse and need to recover... just feels like my central nervous system is shot and needs a rest.

BarchCapper · 11-11-2021, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

@BarchCapper Solid detective work! Your brain is working much better than mine. I think I blew a fuse and need to recover... just feels like my central nervous system is shot and needs a rest.

There are surely more post Breeders' Cup turnouts of handicappers as there are horses! Recharge those batteries and come back firing on all cylinders.

Tom · 11-11-2021, 09:31 PM

That makes perfect sense, the entry to the track with the gate.

Michael · 11-12-2021, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarchCapper

There are surely more post Breeders' Cup turnouts of handicappers as there are horses! Recharge those batteries and come back firing on all cylinders.

Those are wise words... I def need a recharge. Yesterday was my Back workout... and I really emptied the tank mentally and physically.

As we digress as a result of my poor memory. The mutually benefical point of my questioning, was to shine a light on post postion #1 for the main inner turf. ZERO horses won last year in the month of November going 0 for 23 out of the one hole.

If anyone watched the 8th race yesterday on the main inner track the heavy favorite was #1 St. Joe Louis (1.20/1) and he ended up second to last in a 11 horse field.

While the sample size is small... It seems being in the one hole is terrible, yet horses can still win out of the 2. Which #2 King Cause won out of pp2 in that race. My betting line had King Cause as an overlay at 9/2 and he muscled home at $5.30 / 1. My money was on the #4 Hombre ($9.70) as I believed he was "the bet" at a much larger overlay. (finished a distant 5th)

cj · 11-12-2021, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

Those are wise words... I def need a recharge. Yesterday was my Back workout... and I really emptied the tank mentally and physically.

As we digress as a result of my poor memory. The mutually benefical point of my questioning, was to shine a light on post postion #1 for the main inner turf. ZERO horses won last year in the month of November going 0 for 23 out of the one hole.

If anyone watched the 8th race yesterday on the main inner track the heavy favorite was #1 St. Joe Louis (1.20/1) and he ended up second to last in a 11 horse field.

While the sample size is small... It seems being in the one hole is terrible, yet horses can still win out of the 2. Which #2 King Cause won out of pp2 in that race. My betting line had King Cause as an overlay at 9/2 and he muscled home at $5.30 / 1. My money was on the #4 Hombre ($9.70) as I believed he was "the bet" at a much larger overlay. (finished a distant 5th)

Seems pretty random to me considering the 2 post does fine. Unless something has changed, the long term stats show the 1 is just fine long term on that course. See attached.

Michael · 11-12-2021, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj

Seems pretty random to me considering the 2 post does fine. Unless something has changed, the long term stats show the 1 is just fine long term on that course. See attached.

It may very well be an anomaly for the month and for full disclosure brisnet was missing races when I downloaded the results files. (I tend to use the alternative files so I can read the running line easier) So while my superficial check on pp may not be highly accurate... I did find the sample in the random races they did provide me to at least question the post position.

cj · 11-12-2021, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

It may very well be an anomaly for the month and for full disclosure brisnet was missing races when I downloaded the results files. (I tend to use the alternative files so I can read the running line easier) So while my superficial check on pp may not be highly accurate... I did find the sample in the random races they did provide me to at least question the post position.

I hear you. I've learned over the years that post positions stats are subject to a lot of noise and I think you need very large samples to have confidence. I also prefer to break them down by distance and rail setting, but the more you break them down, the smaller the samples get. Short term numbers mean little unless you think there was a track bias that helped or hurt certain posts.