Jamie Ness

[Dony55]

[QUOTE=tbwinner]The more amazing thing is how they can do it and keep such an operation at a high win % with so many horses. They do spot their horses well but it's unbelievable how EVERY ONE improves under a Ness/Midwest claim.[/QUOTE0]

I probaby bet 200 or so races a week since i started about a year ago and man i learned the hard way, losing to this Ness far to often until i finally caught on and jumped on the waggon. Honestly what makes his horses special is the way the run in the stretch, firstly they all look good and than that extra juice they have to keep the chest up and explode to the finish is incredible. They guy is either doing something other trainers dont have or they have a way of training horses not many others can. But he is not alone, the Engleharts, there at FL who is also something of claims lately.

[Dony55]

Originally Posted by bettheoverlay

The aspect I can't grasp is why the other horsemen he's running against don't revolt, race elsewhere, or boycott the races he's entered in. Ness is a disaster for gambling, and I would presume a disaster as well for the legitimite horsemen.

Not really the amazing thing is people are stubborn and look at races before the trainer change and dont think the horse has a chance, in fact its often with Ness and even Englehart you get high odds sometimes so high your wander if you can bet them, when you should almost always at good odds.

[mannyberrios]

If I start betting Mr.Ness horses, he would drop to 5%

[Beachbabe]

Originally Posted by Dony55

Not really the amazing thing is people are stubborn and look at races before the trainer change and dont think the horse has a chance, in fact its often with Ness and even Englehart you get high odds sometimes so high your wander if you can bet them, when you should almost always at good odds.

I can tell you, you don't get "high" odds with Ness at Delaware.
2-1 is high for a Ness runner, there.

[mannyberrios]

Originally Posted by Beachbabe

I can tell you, you don't get "high" odds with Ness at Delaware.
2-1 is high for a Ness runner, there.

He had a 5/1 at AP, the other day

[tbwinner]

Originally Posted by mannyberrios

He had a 5/1 at AP, the other day

That was a Roger Brueggemann-trained Midwest horse, not Jamie Ness. Brueggemann does great work too, as always with Midwest stock, but doesn't have the stratospheric numbers like Ness.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by tbwinner

That was a Roger Brueggemann-trained Midwest horse, not Jamie Ness. Brueggemann does great work too, as always with Midwest stock, but doesn't have the stratospheric numbers like Ness.

that is because he is in a colony with other guys that have very similar techniques.

[Citation1947]

Originally Posted by tbwinner

The more amazing thing is how they can do it and keep such an operation at a high win % with so many horses. They do spot their horses well but it's unbelievable how EVERY ONE improves under a Ness/Midwest claim.

Here is the thing that I don't believe most people think about when it comes to supposed superior horsemanship skills(and yes, I believe he is a bonafide cheat) - the guy runs at 4 or 5 different tracks, but he can't be everywhere personally to oversee the operation(or management of each individual horse), yet, regardless of which track, his winning percentage figures are off the charts. Now how can one win like that at every track(based off their supposed talents) if they aren't even there much of the time to personally evaluate, work on and improve each claim? Of course you don't have to be there when you are relying on a chemistry bag. You just need people that you can trust to carry out your orders.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Citation1947

Here is the thing that I don't believe most people think about when it comes to this cheats supposed superior horsemanship skills(and yes, I believe he is a bonafide cheat) - the guy runs at 4 or 5 different tracks, but he can't be everywhere personally to oversee the operation(or management of each individual horse), yet, regardless of which track, his winning percentage figures are off the charts. Now how can one win like that at every track(based off their supposed talents) if they aren't even there much of the time to personally evaluate, work on and improve each claim? Of course you don't have to be there when you are relying on a chemistry bag. You just need people that you can trust to carry out your orders.

who says he is cheating? the stuff that i suspect many trainers are using is perfectly legal. it just cost a lot of money to administer. these guys have been tested over and over again and they never find anything illegal.

the stuff they are using have many variations to it. chemist's might be able to reproduce the stuff at lower cost than what it sells for on the open market.

its advertised that it doesn't slab, no test in the world will pick it up. it may be no good for the horses down the road. that part has not been proven yet. what has been proven is the more you use this stuff, the better the horses run, and if you did use it and decide to stop, the horses don't run at all. personally i would never use it on my horse because i don't trust it and i care about the well being of horses that i might send to the track.

i never believed this is possible, but i have been fooled. any trainer that is batting at high percentages is using a performance enhancement. there are to many variables to racing where it is truly impossible for these trainers to be that much better than the other guys. racing is paying a very heavy price for allowing top trainers to get away with this, they are losing customers, bettor's and owner's.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

who says he is cheating? the stuff that i suspect many trainers are using is perfectly legal. it just cost a lot of money to administer. these guys have been tested over and over again and they never find anything illegal.

the stuff they are using have many variations to it. chemist's might be able to reproduce the stuff at lower cost than what it sells for on the open market.

its advertised that it doesn't slab, no test in the world will pick it up. it may be no good for the horses down the road. that part has not been proven yet. what has been proven is the more you use this stuff, the better the horses run, and if you did use it and decide to stop, the horses don't run at all. personally i would never use it on my horse because i don't trust it and i care about the well being of horses that i might send to the track.

i never believed this is possible, but i have been fooled. any trainer that is batting at high percentages is using a performance enhancement. there are to many variables to racing where it is truly impossible for these trainers to be that much better than the other guys. racing is paying a very heavy price for allowing top trainers to get away with this, they are losing customers, bettor's and owner's.

Lambo..you may be opening a can of worms here accusing high percentage trainers of cheating.Has nobody thought about how Midwest may spend what they need to help a horse without cheating.Have you thought about how certain owners would spend what it takes to fix and help their horse ailments without using anything Illegal.Im also surprised you didnt name what "They" are using.Horses will run like champions when there ailments are taken care of.I also know a certain owner who will spend whatever it takes within the rules of racing to see their horse win.Doesnt matter what the vet bill is.The purse will take care of it.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Lambo..you may be opening a can of worms here accusing high percentage trainers of cheating.Has nobody thought about how Midwest may spend what they need to help a horse without cheating.Have you thought about how certain owners would spend what it takes to fix and help their horse ailments without using anything Illegal.Im also surprised you didnt name what "They" are using.Horses will run like champions when there ailments are taken care of.I also know a certain owner who will spend whatever it takes within the rules of racing to see their horse win.Doesnt matter what the vet bill is.The purse will take care of it.

I've pointed a few of these things out before . I know Midwest had a facility for training and layups. At least they did. These things and the investment spent are huge . Many don't want to listen though.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Lambo..you may be opening a can of worms here accusing high percentage trainers of cheating.Has nobody thought about how Midwest may spend what they need to help a horse without cheating.Have you thought about how certain owners would spend what it takes to fix and help their horse ailments without using anything Illegal.Im also surprised you didnt name what "They" are using.Horses will run like champions when there ailments are taken care of.I also know a certain owner who will spend whatever it takes within the rules of racing to see their horse win.Doesnt matter what the vet bill is.The purse will take care of it.

It seems to me that in the very first two sentences of Lambo's quoted post he says he suspects they are not cheating.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Lambo..you may be opening a can of worms here accusing high percentage trainers of cheating.Has nobody thought about how Midwest may spend what they need to help a horse without cheating.Have you thought about how certain owners would spend what it takes to fix and help their horse ailments without using anything Illegal.Im also surprised you didnt name what "They" are using.Horses will run like champions when there ailments are taken care of.I also know a certain owner who will spend whatever it takes within the rules of racing to see their horse win.Doesnt matter what the vet bill is.The purse will take care of it.

Is this sarcasm? You can't win at a more than 25% to 30% clip LEGALLY (on a sustained basis with a large sample size) even if a vet lives at the barn. I've explicitly told trainers in the past ("I WANT a high vet bill"--I like to win), and the horses would never improve like the way they do for the supertrainers. Never.

I'm not accusing any particular trainer or owner of anything...maybe a sustained period of luck.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

Lambo..you may be opening a can of worms here accusing high percentage trainers of cheating.Has nobody thought about how Midwest may spend what they need to help a horse without cheating.Have you thought about how certain owners would spend what it takes to fix and help their horse ailments without using anything Illegal.Im also surprised you didnt name what "They" are using.Horses will run like champions when there ailments are taken care of.I also know a certain owner who will spend whatever it takes within the rules of racing to see their horse win.Doesnt matter what the vet bill is.The purse will take care of it.

first of all i never accused anyone of using anything illegal. i haven't even accused midwest of using anything legal.

the stuff that i have come across is called TB-500. it is being used all over the world according to the salesmen for this company. they will not give you the names of the individual's that they sell it to. as far as i can read, this stuff does not help ailments. it deals with a genetic process that is synthetic peptide according to the website.

i have not opened any can worms either, there are jurisdictions that are studying this at this time.
http://www.tb500.com/

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

first of all i never accused anyone of using anything illegal. i haven't even accused midwest of using anything legal.

the stuff that i have come across is called TB-500. it is being used all over the world according to the salesmen for this company. they will not give you the names of the individual's that they sell it to. as far as i can read, this stuff does not help ailments. it deals with a genetic process that is synthetic peptide according to the website.

i have not opened any can worms either, there are jurisdictions that are studying this at this time.
http://www.tb500.com/

Lambo, are you saying racing regulators are okay with this substance being admininstered OR they just don't have a test for it?