Speaking of Etiquette

[Cardus]

I am comfortable with how I used the word, and, more importantly, comfortable with the entirety of my response to FenceBored's assertion that Wrona ought to post here if he wishes to "take shots" at Victim. (At least we are debating a useful, thoughtful word with a lengthy history. It beats posting in Ebonics.)

Naturally, the substance of my response was not rebutted.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Cardus

You might find this hard to believe, but PaceAdvantage -- while entertaining -- is not the center of the Thoroughbred racing world. There are people who haven't heard of this site.

I suspected you didn't like me...but now I know...

You'd be surprised who reads this site (but I'm sure you already know all that, so maybe you wouldn't be...)

[Cardus]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I suspected you didn't like me...but now I know...

You'd be surprised who reads this site (but I'm sure you already know all that, so maybe you wouldn't be...)

This is funny, Mike.

No, I would not be surprised by those who read this site. That doesn't mean that there are people who haven't heard of this site, though.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Cardus

That doesn't mean that there are people who haven't heard of this site, though.

No shit? Wow...I've been living such a delusional lie all this time...

Thanks for setting me straight bud...

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

He's worked at Sonoma's Fair for most of the past two decades, he likes working the Fair, he wants the chance to do it again.

Not hard to understand, not hard to sympathize with. I think we'd all like to work someplace we enjoy working.

It's one thing for a former employee to make it known via letters, phone calls, greeting cards, etc. that he or she enjoyed working in the past for a certain employer. That sort of thing might go a long ways in securing a desired position down the road.

But it's an entirely different thing to try and pull the rug out from someone who has already secured the present position, coax the hiring staff into reconsidering their initial choice, and create a competitive situation that didn't exist. That is low behavior.

I'm most surprised by the board's decision to entertain him and even ask for qualification letters, whether merely for show or not, as they were stiffed last year by the same person when a better gig came along. That gig didn't materialize this year, and again, without respect towards the Fair's deadlines, scheduling, or prior decisions, he figured it was OK to waltz in and make a grab for his old job.

Inconsiderate at the very least, egomaniacal at the worst.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

It's one thing for a former employee to make it known via letters, phone calls, greeting cards, etc. that he or she enjoyed working in the past for a certain employer. That sort of thing might go a long ways in securing a desired position down the road.

But it's an entirely different thing to try and pull the rug out from someone who has already secured the present position, coax the hiring staff into reconsidering their initial choice, and create a competitive situation that didn't exist. That is low behavior.

I'm most surprised by the board's decision to entertain him and even ask for qualification letters, whether merely for show or not, as they were stiffed last year by the same person when a better gig came along. That gig didn't materialize this year, and again, without respect towards the Fair's deadlines, scheduling, or prior decisions, he figured it was OK to waltz in and make a grab for his old job.

Inconsiderate at the very least, egomaniacal at the worst.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

And yet...most of the posters here have expressed the opinon that this sort of behavior is understandable...and even acceptable.

I guess it's a dog-eat-dog world after all...

[Hosshead]

If they had picked Frank Mirahmadi they could have had all three announcers wrapped up in one.

Better yet, lets leave it up to Conan O'brien and Jay Leno.

So if Vic is still a steward, now he's going to DQ horses that Wrona calls a winner by a nose?

And the beat goes on..

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

That gig didn't materialize this year, and again, without respect towards the Fair's deadlines, scheduling, or prior decisions, he figured it was OK to waltz in and make a grab for his old job.

Wait...did I miss where it says Vic can't or won't be returning as a steward?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

I'm most surprised by the board's decision to entertain him and even ask for qualification letters...

It's probably a good bet, given what you just wrote, that the whole story isn't known at this point.

There is a chance this whole process started much EARLIER than what has been shown to date...do you think the one letter that was published from Vic was the one and only communication he had with racing officials out there?

If the hiring of Wrona was such a done deal, they would have told Vic to take a hike, not submit a letter to the board...

Do you think if you or I submitted a letter to the board (on any topic), it would be published in their record of minutes? Yes, it would be published if they decided to address the issue publicly. But if they didn't want to address the issue publicly, they would have simply tossed the letter in the garbage after writing him a canned "thanks but no thanks" response back...

[BetCrazyGirl]

Originally Posted by ElKabong

whether he was right or wrong for doing it, I bet it'll be a long time before Vic or anyone else writes another letter like this...from the outside looking in, it looks very unprofessional.

This is something that would be looked down upon with a high degree of distaste in the so-called real world. I'm confident (sure, actually) if this happened in my workplace the originator of the letter would be shown the door in exactly 90 days (enough time for HR and past supervisors / managers / directors to dig up whatever was on said employee, put the employee on a PIP, then bust him for the slightest error).

Letters like these are not that uncommon and don't always mean the person is sent to the door. If no one was being insulted and only skills highlighted then there is nothing wrong with it, they'll take who they wish to take. Many of times it can be a simple letter that helps get the person's foot in the door. It draws attention where there might not had been any.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

It's probably a good bet, given what you just wrote, that the whole story isn't known at this point.

Nothing can be revealed that can negate the fact that "Vic Stauffer asked that the Committee...reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona...".

There is a chance this whole process started much EARLIER than what has been shown to date...do you think the one letter that was published from Vic was the one and only communication he had with racing officials out there?

Who cares? In the January meeting, it was stated that 2 announcers expressed interest in the announcer position at the 2012 Sonoma County Fair. One member moved to hire Michael Wrona. The motion was seconded. Then the motion was passed unanimously.

Wrona earned the position fair and square in January whether or not Stauffer sent in multiple letters.

If the hiring of Wrona was such a done deal, they would have told Vic to take a hike, not submit a letter to the board...

They didn't tell Vic Stauffer to submit a letter. He submitted the letter in person during the Public Comments portion of a subsequent meeting following the decision to hire Michael Wrona.

Do you think if you or I submitted a letter to the board (on any topic), it would be published in their record of minutes? Yes, it would be published if they decided to address the issue publicly. But if they didn't want to address the issue publicly, they would have simply tossed the letter in the garbage after writing him a canned "thanks but no thanks" response back...

Not sure of your point. I already said I was surprised the Committee even gave him the time of day. That's the scariest part of all of this. The Committee itself nearly folded like a cheap suit (unless Fence Bored is right about them paying Stauffer lip service) and retracted its earlier hiring of Wrona.

Also not sure how any of this is supposed to justify Stauffer's actions.

I guess people (including the Committee) think Wrona is the one who dropped the ball. Maybe he should have boarded himself inside the announcer's booth at Santa Rosa with plywood, padlocks, and firearms and declared the cubicle the new country of "Wronatoria". Then he could have denied Stauffer a visa and settled the matter for good.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Nothing can be revealed that can negate the fact that "Vic Stauffer asked that the Committee...reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona...".

He did? I didn't read that in his letter. Did you?

Who cares? In the January meeting, it was stated that 2 announcers expressed interest in the announcer position at the 2012 Sonoma County Fair. One member moved to hire Michael Wrona. The motion was seconded. Then the motion was passed unanimously.

I guess outrage should be expressed at the board then, even more so than Stauffer...

They didn't tell Vic Stauffer to submit a letter. He submitted the letter in person during the Public Comments portion of a subsequent meeting following the decision to hire Michael Wrona.

How do you know an official did not suggest he send in a letter?

Also not sure how any of this is supposed to justify Stauffer's actions.

Don't you think you're taking this a little too far? Almost as if you have a personal interest in this whole shindig. "Justify Stauffer's actions...." You act as if he killed a small animal.

I guess people (including the Committee) think Wrona is the one who dropped the ball.

I've never intimated anything of the sort.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

He did? I didn't read that in his letter. Did you?

Yeah, the court reporter just made it up. Vic remained silent at the microphone when he was allowed 3 minutes to address the Committee.

I guess outrage should be expressed at the board then, even more so than Stauffer...

Now you're getting it.

How do you know an official did not suggest he send in a letter?

After they made a unanimous decision? What's the odds that Stauffer was the second announcer they already considered back in January?

You're grasping at straws.

Don't you think you're taking this a little too far?

In what way? What was the point of this thread if it wasn't to decide whether or not Vic Stauffer acted improperly at the February meeting?

Almost as if you have a personal interest in this whole shindig.

Whatever. You're playing the game you so loathe in other posters. Skewing the discussion towards some baseless accusation that I have a personal agenda to fulfill.

My earlier post today was meant to be an objective comment. I tried to reduce the matter to its basic elements to get away from the cloudiness caused by Stauffer's polarizing affect on this board.

You pressed me on specifics, so I gave them to you.

"Justify Stauffer's actions...." You act as if he killed a small animal.

You're right. He only tried to usurp another person's livelihood.

No big deal.

I've never intimated anything of the sort.

Wasn't meant for you specifically.

[chickenhead]

talking out of my azz here, like everyone else...

Being that there was apparently a somewhat complicated history with Vic and the Sonoma County Fair (Vics letter mentioned throwing someone under the bus, previously, if I recall), if there was ever any private intimation that choosing an announcer would A.) Directly affect handle, via TVG, or B.) Could be done at a substantially lower rate...both things Vic intimated publicly in his letter..

Being that the Fair is a quasi public agency, I would expect them to wish very much for this to be handled publicly, if only for protection. Not from Vic, but just in general. Better to publicly find such things baseless or without substance, ahead of time, than to later be accused of hiding it in private, for some sort of vindictive reason.

Sunshine is good disenfectant, being a possible line of thinking.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

Yeah, the court reporter just made it up. Vic remained silent at the microphone when he was allowed 3 minutes to address the Committee.

Did I miss the link to this doozy? No, seriously...I want to read about this...

Whatever. You're playing the game you so loathe in other posters. Skewing the discussion towards some baseless accusation that I have a personal agenda to fulfill.

Never said you did...only said you're acting like you do...

For the record, I don't think you have a personal agenda, which makes it all the more curious to me...

My earlier post today was meant to be an objective comment. I tried to reduce the matter to its basic elements to get away from the cloudiness caused by Stauffer's polarizing affect on this board.

Why do you think this is exactly? At least prior to THIS incident...

You're right. He only tried to usurp another person's livelihood.

There you go again...being all dramatic...

The fact remains that the board is the one that calls the shots...and the facts clearly dictate that Wrona wasn't on any type of solid ground, for if he was, that letter of Stauffer's would have never made it into the minutes and there never would have been a reconsideration of their initial recommendation.

For the record, I have no beef with you, and have always appreciated your contributions to the board.

You should know by now that I am a contrarian by nature and like to play devil's advocate whenever the opportunity affords itself...