the point system

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Tread

did Genuine Risk race against boys prior to the derby, in a race that would have earned points?

did Winning Colors race against boys prior to the derby, in a race that would have earned points?

Are you guys just making this stuff up as you go along?

And why are we discussing Rachel Alexandra in the Preakness? The Derby point system has absolutely nothing to do with the Preakness.

I don't know that I've ever seen such a collection of illogical statements in an internet posting.

Horses need to EARN their way into the Derby with performance in Derby-relevant races, at Derby-relevant distances, against their peers at 3 years old. Not sprints. Not 2 yr old races. Not against sex-restricted fields. If you feel you have a horse good enough for the Derby, there is a very clear path for you to follow.

Not before this year did they have to EARN it THIS WAY. You act as this is SO logical that of course this is the way it is, so how did CD, a trainer, owner, or even a fan on some internet forum not come up with this idea a gazillion years ago?

What other races make you jump through such hoops? And such weird hoops, I might add, like including some race in the desert and another on a different surface, and not including an obvious and perfect prep, and more.

It's odd that this system gets such support. Just who is getting the boot who would've been there but now isn't, and the race is all the better for their absence? Who is getting in who wouldn't have gotten in in past years and making the racing all the better with his presence?

Only the other side has a good argument with the way things have shaken out, and that's that the Derby is worse for a filly not being there. Imagine the hype of a filly going in with better numbers than every single colt/gelding in the race.

[Tom]

In other words, you still have nothing to offer?
You and your cousin seem to have some kind of block when it comes to discussion. If you can't figure out the Preakness example, I can't dumb it down any lower.

Maybe you and Tread could talk to each other. Seems like a fair match.
Compare knuckle scrapes and stuff like that.

[Tom]

Only the other side has a good argument with the way things have shaken out, and that's that the Derby is worse for a filly not being there. Imagine the hype of a filly going in with better numbers than every single colt/gelding in the race.

That is what I thought, but apparently, it violates the rules.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Tom

That is what I thought, but apparently, it violates the rules.

Hell, the fillies of the past 5 years have been almost the only horses of any interest, and now we're seeing some anti-filly sentiment. Illogical.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Not before this year did they have to EARN it THIS WAY. You act as this is SO logical that of course this is the way it is, so how did CD, a trainer, owner, or even a fan on some internet forum not come up with this idea a gazillion years ago?

What other races make you jump through such hoops? And such weird hoops, I might add, like including some race in the desert and another on a different surface, and not including an obvious and perfect prep, and more.

It's odd that this system gets such support. Just who is getting the boot who would've been there but now isn't, and the race is all the better for their absence? Who is getting in who wouldn't have gotten in in past years and making the racing all the better with his presence?

Only the other side has a good argument with the way things have shaken out, and that's that the Derby is worse for a filly not being there. Imagine the hype of a filly going in with better numbers than every single colt/gelding in the race.

The only thing stopping fillies from going to the Derby are their connections.

If they wanted to take on the boys, there is nothing to stop them from doing so, and earning their way in the same manner. Perhaps sometime, when the connections of a talented filly enter her in the Wood, or the SA Derby, they will have the Derby as an option, instead of automatically going for the Oaks.

You, also, bring up the prep race in the desert.
Don't blame it's importance on the new system.
It always had more graded stakes earnings than any race here, and for years has been a KY Derby stepping stone for the sheiks and Coolmore.

[horses4courses]

Looking at the updated leaderboard, the top 5 horses also have by far the most graded stakes earnings.
Imagine that.......

http://admin.kentuckyderby.com/sites...0Standings.pdf

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Hell, the fillies of the past 5 years have been almost the only horses of any interest, and now we're seeing some anti-filly sentiment. Illogical.

Rules are rules.
I read that somewhere.
By a great racing mind.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

Always predictably illogical. Nice to be able to rely on that.

Here we go...just itching to bring in some off topic nonsense, right?

Don't!

[letswastemoney]

I think it is unfair to regard filly races in the same light as male races. After all, I don't regard state bred allowance races as the same as open allowance races.

With that said, they should probably let at least 1 or 2 fillies in, if only for intrigue and drama.

[Some_One]

Is there an AE list for the Derby yet? Couldnt Pletcher enter Dreaming of Julia, hope only the top 20 enter their horses and then somehow convince one of his other owners to scratch to allow DoJ in on zero points?

[Tom]

No. Other horses have points. She has none.

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I don't get it either. Why does anyone want to see fillies left out? Or think that fillies should have to win against males in designated races first before being able to run in the Derby? The fillies are running in their division. The colts are running in theirs. If a filly pops up there and shows to her connections that she deserves the chance, then why would anyone think that unfair or something? They've done nothing different than the colts, which is to run in their division up to the Derby.

And thats the point they have run in THEIR division...The Derby is a different (open 3 yo) division. People make way too much of this point system......who would of, should of, could of gotten left out or some other crappy nonsense. Like the point system is some top secret method to get there and they release it after the fact. Everyone has known about it since last year, the point allocation, which races offer the most points and so forth. The whole point of the system is IF YOU WANT TO GET IN, YOU RUN YOUR HORSE IN THESE "Specific" RACES......theres no short cuts now, no winning purses and sitting back either. No one is against the fillies getting in, it will take someone with the balls enough to take that shot. You know you can't get points through the Oaks preps.......since last year! You have to take your shot BEFORE the derby and PROVE worthy. Why is this so hard to understand? People act like they announced this yesterday. Its like talking to cement or as one guy said."people that drag their knuckles on said cement." It is what it is....you know going in what has to be done to qualify......basically first or second in the last major round will do it...why is that asking too much? What do you suggest? A waiver? A note from mommy? Bunch of nonsense, the races are spelled out in order ....clear as day.....months ago. If you think your horse is that good.......enter her...no one is stopping you.

[Tom]

And what if you find out your filly is that good late in the game?
Why do we need rules to bar horses - why not have a system that is adaptable and will allow late spring adjustments?

Why is everyone so gung ho about rules?
Is the object and orderly entry processor or the best race we can get?
They have supplemental fees for the BC......not stringent rules.

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Here we go...just itching to bring in some off topic nonsense, right?

Don't!

That comment was based strictly on what Tom has written here.
I can't help it that most of his posts are in OTG.

[Leparoux]

Originally Posted by Tom

And what if you find out your filly is that good late in the game?

Such is life.