Has the time come?

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I think Exotic players should boycott CA racing. The win pool players are a different matter.

Dead wrong..

There needs to be a COMPLETE boycott of California racing. The CHRB will spin the handle decrease any way they can. If exotic wagering is down 20% but WPS is up 20%, they will declare victory, and more importantly other racing jurisdictions are only going to be looking at OVERALL handle to come up with an excuse to raise their take.

The handle decrease needs to be at least 20% overall, or they will blame it on the weather and economy as usual.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

There needs to be a COMPLETE boycott of California racing. The CHRB will spin the handle decrease any way they can. If exotic wagering is down 20% but WPS is up 20%, they will declare victory, and more importantly other racing jurisdictions are only going to be looking at OVERALL handle to come up with an excuse to raise their take.

The handle decrease needs to be at least 20% overall, or they will blame it on the weather and economy as usual.

BINGO !
Why give them a lifeline? A swift effective strike would do more
to reverse the exotics takeout rates and restore what will be reduced purses.

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I think Exotic players should boycott CA racing. The win pool players are a different matter. Their takeout is among the lowest in the country

It is only a matter of time before the WPS takeout rates also are raised.
Why help delay in what needs to be done?

There should not only be a reversal of takeout rates but a plan towards a reduction to an optimal levels.

Optimal takeout rates that helps both the consumer and producer.
California must do that to be considered a nationally important region again.

[chickenhead]

Something else California players might want to think about is that playing other out of state tracks also puts money into Cali purses due to the cap on signal fees and the ADW retention cap.

What this means is that if you're in California and you're playing any out of state track, either via simulcast or ADW -- the lions share of your takeout dough is going to California.

If you're feeling a little more militant about things, curtailing your play altogether or coming up with a plan B to get around the above might be something to consider.

[BillW]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

Something else California players might want to think about is that playing other out of state tracks also puts money into Cali purses due to the cap on signal fees and the ADW retention cap.

What this means is that if you're in California and you're playing any out of state track, either via simulcast or ADW -- the lions share of your takeout dough is going to California.

If you're feeling a little more militant about things, curtailing your play altogether or coming up with a plan B to get around the above might be something to consider.

This is essentially a source market fee. They are forcing you to pay the tracks for the pleasure you get out of playing the horses from your own living room. So far they haven't figured out how to take a cut out of that cold beer you keep in your refrigerator.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by chickenhead

Something else California players might want to think about is that playing other out of state tracks also puts money into Cali purses due to the cap on signal fees and the ADW retention cap.

What this means is that if you're in California and you're playing any out of state track, either via simulcast or ADW -- the lions share of your takeout dough is going to California.

If you're feeling a little more militant about things, curtailing your play altogether or coming up with a plan B to get around the above might be something to consider.

We have to let everyone do what they feel like they can do without bashing them.

Stop playing altogether.

Play offshore.

Play WPS only.

Every little bit will help.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

Dead wrong..

There needs to be a COMPLETE boycott of California racing. The CHRB will spin the handle decrease any way they can. If exotic wagering is down 20% but WPS is up 20%, they will declare victory, and more importantly other racing jurisdictions are only going to be looking at OVERALL handle to come up with an excuse to raise their take.

The handle decrease needs to be at least 20% overall, or they will blame it on the weather and economy as usual.

I for one am not going give up a 15.4% takeout for some place that charges 17+% and that already charges more in exotic pools than CA will after the raise. Where were you this summer with your boycott when Monmouth was ripping off win pool betters and trying say what a great deal it was because they got an extra horse per race with their ridiculous purses. If you wanted to boycott someplace over high takeouts, there are a lot of places a lot worse than CA. If you are really serious about takeout rates boycotts start PA racing or one the other ripoff racinos. Show me some place where I can get as good a deal on my win bet as CA and I will join your boycott. I can't afford to give up an extra 2% to prove point about pools I never bet.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I for one am not going give up a 15.4% takeout for some place that charges 17+% and that already charges more in exotic pools than CA will after the raise. Where were you this summer with your boycott when Monmouth was ripping off win pool betters and trying say what a great deal it was because they got an extra horse per race with their ridiculous purses. If you wanted to boycott someplace over high takeouts, there are a lot of places a lot worse than CA. If you are really serious about takeout rates boycotts start PA racing or one the other ripoff racinos. Show me some place where I can get as good a deal on my win bet as CA and I will join your boycott. I can't afford to give up an extra 2% to prove point about pools I never bet.

You're right.

Everyone needs to make their best effort if we do this. It's not a perfect world and you're right about the WPS pools.

[riskman]

The place to attack this would be the out of state money. The handle here is higher and would be easier to to target then the on track and inter state handle. Most resident CA. players will continue to wager despite the take out increase.(I think)
The best option would be is to have some pol introduce legislation that would restrict wagering to CA residents only. There is probably some pol in CA.
crazy enough to introduce a bill. That surely would get the CHRB and track owners attention even though it will probably go nowhere.
A paid advertisement in the DRF, Bloodhorse and web sites such as Brisnet would surely cause a ruckus. Hana could sponsor the ads. I would be willing to donate something for this project. Are others willing to contribute or is this a crazy idea. If you really believe this to be a defining issue a stance must be taken that involves some risk but a I believe a boycott is not the answer but unfavorable publicity that is honest and to the point will have an effect on the egos involved and cause some embarrassment which is truly deserving.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

If you wanted to boycott someplace over high takeouts, there are a lot of places a lot worse than CA.

Darn shame the subject at hand is CA. If you have interest in taking your play away from MTH or points unknown, live it up. The dynamics of takeout from one state to another are not the issue. The hiked take in CA is the issue at hand and people are trying to address a leak in the dam here. The sooner folk like you grasp that concept the quicker people can focus on a state that is moving in the wrong direction_

[Indulto]

Since it is California politicians who have conspired to tax horseplayers unmercifully, perhaps Ben Franklin’s famous quote is appropriate to this thread: "We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Horseplayers throughout the nation need to look at the California situation and recognize that the arrogance displayed by politicians, track management, and horsemen toward racing’s customers is too egregious to let stand, and is an example of what is sure to follow elsewhere if not addressed collectively by those customers.

This is not a matter of where can I get the best deal, but how to start getting a GOOD DEAL EVERYWHERE. What we can accomplish now will strengthen our influence in the future.

I don’t know when the best time to begin is. Perhaps people here will offer suggestions. I was initially concerned that Oak Tree might be an inappropriate target because of the charities it feeds, but Brackpool just revealed that it was Hollywood Park management that did the “heavy lifting” on the bill. Let’s discuss it, because the outrage and passion that is running high now needs to be harnessed before it cools off.

[W2G]

An organized boycott would surely be a defining moment for HANA. If its membership has a significant number who play CA and feel equally passionate about the takeout issue and would actually follow-through with a boycott, then maybe the impact would be felt. A clear objective and expectations would have to be defined.

A well-publicized boycott that does not produce an impact on handle would be a tough thing for the organization to overcome. Horseplayers everywhere are opportunists and a boycott of CA racing would also be a public announcement that a bunch of sharp, heavy-hitting players are no longer competing in these pools.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by Indulto

[font=Verdana]Since it is California politicians who have conspired to tax horseplayers unmercifully,

By the way, this whole political angle to the picture is one that is an exercise in futility. This issue is a blip of a blip on the screen of politicians in this state.

[Deepsix]

Before any boycott/suspension of play (who thought up that euphemism?) is contemplated HANA, as well as all horseplayers need to measure the anticipated level of participation. I'd suggest that instead of this continual moaning/whining (Groundhog Day all over again) that you use an incremental approach. In the very near future select one single race at Hollypark and ask everyone to avoid betting that single race. IF folks participate and there is measurable impact ('impact' being the operative word) on the pools in that race it will allow folks to gauge the support of fellow players. IF there is participation/impact then identify another single race within a determined short time frame and once again measure the participation. IF there is participation and the pools in those selected races are impacted it will give everyone a contemporaneous indication of whether a sufficient degree of unity exists. Enthusiasm will build. IF, on the other hand, there is an insufficient amount of participation (little impact on the identified races) then its obviously not the time to attempt some grander strategy.

It occurs to me that HANA has everything to lose IF they attempt some large scale wildcat action and it fails. Don't waste time with polls....

[riskman]

Originally Posted by andymays

We have to let everyone do what they feel like they can do without bashing them.

Stop playing altogether.

Play offshore.

Play WPS only.

Every little bit will help.

Except for a minority or minuscule amount CA. resident horseplayers will continue to wager on exotic propositions and WPS.

Out of state players is another story.CA in many cases is an option not a first preference. Some do not wager because of synthetics. The only races I wager on in CA. are turf races as do many of the players I know in NY.I could easily give up CA. and it would not appreciably affect my situation but to be honest, I do not know if I will.

No way am I am playing off shore. Rather give up CA. altogether than to wager non pari mutual pools and restrictive payouts. I fully support U.S. based wagering pari mutual pools.

[Robert Fischer]

How many here could/would boycott Doubles,Exactas and Trifectas?

Seems like these might be a good portion of the most insulting attacks they have planned on the horseplayers

I think that if we did something and showed organization and a willingness to manipulate pools, it would instill fear and respect, even if most of the money was re-bet into other pools. Prove that we can do something simple. Realistically there would be a good chance that it would hurt their bottom line as well.