The Horseplayers Early Pick 4 with 10% takeout! What if?

[andymays]

This went out this morning in on of my infamous emails to the big shots it California. Sometimes I don't know why they pay these people. When Horseplayers pick a loser they don't get paid. When Racing Executives pick a loser they still get paid.

Then again, I may be the dummy here (don't answer that ).

Any opinions on the proposal?


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How Online Past Performances Affect Handle
Another Solution for California

The Horseplayers Early Pick 4 with 10% takeout

Every day more and more Horseplayers buy their past performances online. I’ve been using Formulator from the Daily Racing Form because they’re the best. One of the reasons I buy them online is that they have run up distances and turf rail positions. Traditional DRF past performances do not have them.

The traditional Form that I always bought at a liquor store or on track had the past performances for about five tracks. When Horseplayers buy the past performances online they have choices. Horseplayers can buy one card or ten cards. You can print one race from each card or a series of races like the Monmouth pick 5. I print out the Monmouth pick 5 (races six through ten) because they have 15% takeout on that bet. I have attached old past performances for the sixth race at Monmouth for 8-20 as an example.

When I download the Monmouth pick 5 and put in the bet I usually find myself making a couple of other bets at Monmouth. Why? Because I already paid for the past performances for the entire card.


How do you get Horseplayers to buy your past performances?

Getting Horseplayers who have a choice to download the California card should be a priority for the people who run California Racing. One way to get Horseplayers interested in the California card is to get them to play the early pick 4. The problem is that we normally have short fields out here, especially in the early races.

The solution for California would be to have “The Horseplayers Early Pick Four” with a 10% takeout. I would also make it a $1 or $2 bet. With the normal takeout and the short fields the bet isn’t that enticing. With a 10% takeout it becomes a very good bet.

We all know why this benefits the Horseplayer but here’s why it benefits California Racing. Again, when Horseplayers download the past performances for “The Horseplayers Early Pick Four” with a 10% takeout they are more likely to play the rest of the card. They’ve already paid for the past performances so you can be sure they will play the rest of the races. Handle will increase significantly. What’s wrong with that?

How about doing something smart in California instead of following the rest of the industry?

Thanks,

Andy

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Bad name.....won't work

How about naming it....

TOC "we must be recognized for our contribution of funding our sport" early P-4 10% takeout

CHRB "stop wasting our time we've already decided" early P-4 10% takeout

maybe it will work then

[elhelmete]

Nothing wrong with the specific idea, but I am not sure about drastically lowering takeout for specific wagers versus perhaps a more modest reduction on all wagers.

But given the kind of $$ that I'm supposed to believe populates the horizontal wager pools, this one should click.

And the time zone helps...

[andymays]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Nothing wrong with the specific idea, but I am not sure about drastically lowering takeout for specific wagers versus perhaps a more modest reduction on all wagers.

But given the kind of $$ that I'm supposed to believe populates the horizontal wager pools, this one should click.

And the time zone helps...

It gives people a another reason to download the pp's for SA, Hollywood, or Del Mar. Horseplayers have a reason to play short fields at 10% takeout. It also gets people to the track for the first race. In Southern California quite a few people just show up for the start of the pick 6 in races 3 or 4.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Does anybody really want to support a 10% takeout P-4 with the hope that bettors will make bets on the other races/options with the new 2%-3% takeout raise possibly being implemented?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Does anybody really want to support a 10% takeout P-4 with the hope that bettors will make bets on the other races/options with the new 2%-3% takeout raise possibly being implemented?

If the bet takes off they won't be able to say nobody cares anymore. I'm trying to think of a creative way to get them to take the first step.

So far they are taking a beating for trying to raise the take. They feel the heat. The raise will go through but they may be willing to throw us a bone with the early pick four at 10%.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by andymays

If the bet takes off they won't be able to say nobody cares anymore. I'm trying to think of a creative way to get them to take the first step.

So far they are taking a beating for trying to raise the take. They feel the heat. The raise will go through but they may be willing to throw us a bone with the early pick four at 10%.

Fvck the bone.

Horseplayers are getting raped and you say it's OK if they use a condom?

What the hell is going on here?

Jeff on TVG was straight out asked "are you for or against the bill" and he had no answer.

Has everybody lost their mind?

[andymays]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Fvck the bone.

Horseplayers are getting raped and you say it's OK if they use a condom?

What the hell is going on here?

Jeff on TVG was straight out asked "are you for or against the bill" and he had no answer.

Has everybody lost their mind?

First of all I'm out there fighting as hard or harder than anyone to get something changed. What kind of bullshit comment is that? Second, I'm a HANA member but don't represent HANA in any way. I've been as critical as anyone when I think they're wrong on a certain issue. There are issues I agree with them on as well.

Jeff said he was for betting exchanges and against the takeout raise. That's what he said. Did I like the response? No, he should have been more forcefull.

What exactly is your solution?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by andymays

First of all I'm out there fighting as hard or harder than anyone to get something changed. What kind of bullshit comment is that? Second, I'm a HANA member but don't represent HANA in any way. I've been as critical as anyone when I think they're wrong on a certain issue. There are issues I agree with them on as well.

Jeff said he was for betting exchanges and against the takeout raise. That's what he said. Did I like the response? No, he should have been more forcefull.

What exactly is your solution?

We are all fighting.

We don't need a bone.

We don't need a reason to bet their product and then hopefully get extra handle on their non-10% takeout----extra 2%-3% takeout bets so that they can say "we told you idiot horseplayers that the takeout increase wouldn't affect handle"

That's my solution.....don't make it to where they can justify the takeout increase, keep it, and others possibly follow.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

We are all fighting.

We don't need a bone.

We don't need a reason to bet their product and then hopefully get extra handle on their non-10% takeout----extra 2%-3% takeout bets so that they can say "we told you idiot horseplayers that the takeout increase wouldn't affect handle"

That's my solution.....don't make it to where they can justify the takeout increase, keep it, and others possibly follow.

What will they have to say if the early pick 4 handle goes up by 2-4 times?

Horseplayers don't have to play anything else if they don't want to. Take advantage of the 10% takeout bet and leave.

[andymays]

By the way Fravel (Del Mar) just got appointed to the Jockey Club. He isn't going anywhere but up. He's one of the most powerful racing executives in the country.

http://jockeyclub.com/mediaCenter.asp?story=451

That's the guy you have to convince to lower takeout.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by andymays

What will they have to say if the early pick 4 handle goes up by 2-4 times?

They will say that reduced takeout is OK on ONE reduced wager to get people in the door and that avg daily handle did not drop so the takeout increase is great for the track and horsemen. Horsemen should take note of this and possibly raise takeout in other jurisdictions.

Originally Posted by andymays

Horseplayers don't have to play anything else if they don't want to. Take advantage of the 10% takeout bet and leave.

I know you know that won't happen. Some might leave but most will be induced to bet other races. Read your first post in this thread. I think that's the entire premise of it.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by andymays

By the way Fravel (Del Mar) just got appointed to the Jockey Club. He isn't going anywhere but up. He's one of the most powerful racing executives in the country.

http://jockeyclub.com/mediaCenter.asp?story=451

That's the guy you have to convince to lower takeout.

Fravel and Zetcher

Both 100% for raising takeout.

Why try to convince them....spend your energy elsewhere.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

They will say that reduced takeout is OK on ONE reduced wager to get people in the door and that avg daily handle did not drop so the takeout increase is great for the track and horsemen. Horsemen should take note of this and possibly raise takeout in other jurisdictions.



I know you know that won't happen. Some might leave but most will be induced to bet other races. Read your first post in this thread. I think that's the entire premise of it.

They hold all the cards and always have because they know a boycott isn't going to happen.

Absolutely, I know most will play other races on the card. You have to give them a good reason to do something. It's a first step and there isn't any other way short of a boycott to get them to do something in the near future.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Fravel and Zetcher

Both 100% for raising takeout.

Why try to convince them....spend your energy elsewhere.

Yes, they are both on the wrong side of the issue as usual.

In my opinion Fravel is one of the strongest racing executives in the country and is strong nationally as well. Our positions are opposed to one another in most instances. Having said that he's been taking a lot of heat lately for his position on takeout and on synthetic surfaces and rightly so. He could be willing to take a shot with the 10% early pick 4 because Del Mar doesn't have an early pick 4.