Parlay Betting - Page 2 - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

ryesteve · 07-29-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takeout

If a track offered a parlay bet wouldn’t that essentially be the same thing as betting a double?

No, because unless I'm mistaken, all they're doing is automating the process... they're not consolidating the takeout and giving you higher prices on the second bet.

andymays · 07-29-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryesteve

No, because unless I'm mistaken, all they're doing is automating the process... they're not consolidating the takeout and giving you higher prices on the second bet.

There is not a separate pool for parlay bets like there is a separate double pool (I know ryesteve knows that). The first win parlay bet goes in the win pool and everything collected from that goes as a win bet in the second pool as if you did it yourself. The takeout applies on each win bet. With the parlay though you can't stop it.

andymays · 07-29-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryesteve

Straight, in the proper amounts.

Let me ask you this: would you knowingly bet a DD at a track that had a 32% takeout on them? That's pretty much what a parlay is.

I'm not following you and I know you're better than me with the numbers.

A win parlay is two win bets right? If I had put $200 to win on each horse that day I would have collected much less that I did with a parlay. Each win bet had a 15% take right? By your logic any bet you made after your first bet of the day would have a higher take???? Are we mixing up the numbers with churn?

ryesteve · 07-29-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

By your logic any bet you made after your first bet of the day would have a higher take????

No, because in the case of a parlay, the 2nd bet size is contingent on the first race payout, which is already being subjected to takeout. So your bet size has been decreased, and the payout you'd get on that if you win is being subjected to takeout once again.

I know it's a little fuzzy, but it's easier to wrap your head around if you just compare DD payouts with the corresponding parlay payout. You can see the difference between compounding the takeout (ie a parlay) and just getting hit with the takeout once, even when it's at a higher rate than a straight bet. When you see how much of a "bonus" you get betting the latter, parlays seem like a ripoff in comparison.

andymays · 07-29-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryesteve

No, because in the case of a parlay, the 2nd bet size is contingent on the first race payout, which is already being subjected to takeout. So your bet size has been decreased, and the payout you'd get on that if you win is being subjected to takeout once again.

I know it's a little fuzzy, but it's easier to wrap your head around if you just compare DD payouts with the corresponding parlay payout. You can see the difference between compounding the takeout (ie a parlay) and just getting hit with the takeout once, even when it's at a higher rate than a straight bet. When you see how much of a "bonus" you get betting the latter, parlays seem like a ripoff in comparison.

I understand that the Daily Double usually will pay off higher than a win parlay pool permitting. But doesn't your argument hold true with anyone that goes to the track with x amount of dollars and runs those dollars up to x times 200? Adding up the takeout in consecutive bets doesn't hold water does it? In the case of the parlay I made sure it would have been better to put equal win bets on each Horse or play a double if they were in consecutive races but the reality was I had $400 to bet that day and the horses were in the second and sixth races to the best of my recollection so I made a $200 win and place parlay. I think I maxed out my bet in the best way possible no?

ryesteve · 07-29-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

Adding up the takeout in consecutive bets doesn't hold water does it?

Only in the case where the subsequent bet sizes are a function of takeout (as they are in the case of a parlay). Even if it's tough to see the logic, how else could you explain why a parlay of two 18% takeout bets will, on average, pay about 20% less than the identical DD bet with a 21% takeout?

andymays · 07-29-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryesteve

Only in the case where the subsequent bet sizes are a function of takeout (as they are in the case of a parlay). Even if it's tough to see the logic, how else could you explain why a parlay of two 18% takeout bets will, on average, pay about 20% less than the identical DD bet with a 21% takeout?

I would think part of the reason is that a DD is an exotic bet that most people will "spread' in with some type of DD part wheel or 1 horse by 3 horses as an example.

But again, I agree that when your two best of the day are in consecutive races the DD is the way to go in most cases! The size of the DD pool and the size of the bet you make should you win will have an impact on the DD payout!

fmolf · 07-29-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

I would think part of the reason is that a DD is an exotic bet that most people will "spread' in with some type of DD part wheel or 1 horse by 3 horses as an example.

But again, I agree that when your two best of the day are in consecutive races the DD is the way to go in most cases! The size of the DD pool and the size of the bet you make should you win will have an impact on the DD payout!

i think you are both partially right.Andy why would you bet a parlay? All that amounts to is betting early without seeing the odds.Why not wait ...show discipline and make sure you get an overlaid price on your second horse before you bet.If price is good then bet all your winnings on the horse.Doubles are better i believe because takeout is only once at a slightly higher rate and people do not bet the doubles as efficiently as in the win pools.Steve any time anyone makes two win bets on a card no matter how much he bets he is subject to the takeout twice,whether he wins or loses the first bet.

andymays · 07-29-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmolf

i think you are both partially right.Andy why would you bet a parlay? All that amounts to is betting early without seeing the odds.Why not wait ...show discipline and make sure you get an overlaid price on your second horse before you bet.If price is good then bet all your winnings on the horse.Doubles are better i believe because takeout is only once at a slightly higher rate and people do not bet the doubles as efficiently as in the win pools.Steve any time anyone makes two win bets on a card no matter how much he bets he is subject to the takeout twice,whether he wins or loses the first bet.

You have to read the thread from the beginning. Part of the reason I put in the $200 w-p parlay was that I couldn't be around the Track or the computer for most of the day and the ADW's don't let you bet a parlay although I could have called it in I guess but I didn't want to miss it. I also had been winning quite a bit on line and didn't want the winnings to show up in the statement should I win. I had to do it that way and I'm glad I did! To tell you the truth it was kind of a feeling I had that the parlay was the way to go that day. I did put in some rolling p3's and stuff on line in the morning and missed them all!

And as I said earlier I would not have put the whole $3900 on the second Horse. I would have probably put half on the second Horse if I did it myself!

fmolf · 07-29-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

You have to read the thread from the beginning. Part of the reason I put in the $200 w-p parlay was that I couldn't be around the Track or the computer for most of the day and the ADW's don't let you bet a parlay although I could have called it in I guess but I didn't want to miss it. I also had been winning quite a bit on line and didn't want the winnings to show up in the statement should I win. I had to do it that way and I'm glad I did! To tell you the truth it was kind of a feeling I had that the parlay was the way to go that day. I did put in some rolling p3's and stuff on line in the morning and missed them all!

And as I said earlier I would not have put the whole $3900 on the second Horse. I would have probably put half on the second Horse if I did it myself!

understood.....

takeout · 07-30-2009, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryesteve

No, because unless I'm mistaken, all they're doing is automating the process... they're not consolidating the takeout and giving you higher prices on the second bet.

I was wrongly assuming that it was only one takeout.

takeout · 07-30-2009, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymays

The size of the DD pool and the size of the bet you make should you win will have an impact on the DD payout!

I was thinking about that too. There probably isn’t as much money in the double pool as in the win pool. If it had been a double you could’ve hit it and conceivably ended up getting less money than with the parlay even though there would only be the one takeout. Depending on the DD pool size $200 may have been a gross overbet hooking up two horses with odds that long. Wouldn’t it have pulled the payout of that combination down quite a bit?

Investorater · 08-04-2009, 02:53 PM

My parlays consist of-Win-Place-Show-Place-expecting at least an even money return on all bets.