Need research input on tracks

[rufus999]

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

[boomman]

Originally Posted by rufus999

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

rufus: I would also recommend that you take a look at the DRF purse values from track to track as they can be helpful when comparing how horses compare from track to track ( I cover this in detail in my first book)....

Here goes (in order from top to bottom with the top track in each category being the best quality):
1. Suffolk, Fort Erie, Finger Lakes, Mountaineer

2. Penn National, Charlestown ( I would think the opposite, but that hasn't been the case)

3. Arlington, Hawthorne, River Downs, Thistledown, and Beulah (including the twins) a distant last........

Hope this helps..........

Boomer

[Rob_in_MN]

If you check back next week this will probably change because Penn will be receiving a new purse structure and the quality of racing should increase gradually to be in par with or exceed that of Charles Town.

CT and MTR have the higher purses, followed a distance 2nd by Penn (again will change next as of Feb 12th when they re-open infused with slot money) Then Finger Lakes and Beulah - which is a very distant 5th.

[shanta]

Originally Posted by rufus999

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs
rufus

I'd rate FE horses a bit stronger than the others shown. Mnr,Fl and Suf all on equal terms with one another

[rufus999]

Originally Posted by boomman

rufus: I would also recommend that you take a look at the DRF purse values from track to track as they can be helpful when comparing how horses compare from track to track ( I cover this in detail in my first book)....

Yes, I agree. I use the purse structure tables provided by DRF.

2. Penn National, Charlestown ( I would think the opposite, but that hasn't been the case)

Again I agree. Penn horses seem to ship quite well. Perhaps the track surface is a good conditioner. I don't know. Its puzzling.

Hope this helps..........


Boomer

Very much so... thanks.[img]images/UBGX/E5.gif[/img]

rufus

[Cangamble]

I'm not that familiar with Suffolk, but I don't think they are faster the Finger Lakes horses in general.
I do think Fort Erie should rank highest in their category. The 5 claimers are sometimes very competitive and they run comparitively to 10k claimers at Woodbine often.
I always thought Thistle was better than River.

[boomman]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

I'm not that familiar with Suffolk, but I don't think they are faster the Finger Lakes horses in general.
I do think Fort Erie should rank highest in their category. The 5 claimers are sometimes very competitive and they run comparitively to 10k claimers at Woodbine often.
I always thought Thistle was better than River.

Can: I base my ratings on the fact that Suffolk horses in general have shipped very well to Florida this winter, but do agree that The Fort Erie horses have become competitive as well....as for the Thistle horses, I would have agreed on that up to last year (being better than River), but I think River's horses have improved while Thistle's have gone the other way....Very close call though, but I'm sure we both agree that they are eons ahead of Beulah!!!!

Boomer

[njcurveball]

Originally Posted by boomman

Can: I base my ratings on the fact that Suffolk horses in general have shipped very well to Florida this winter, but do agree that The Fort Erie horses have become competitive as well....as for the Thistle horses

I guess it depends on the circuit you play. My impression as someone who follows Mountaineer is that Fort Erie shippers can kick any horse coming from Suffolk. Even Thistledown horses are better than Suffolk shippers.

Perhaps it is more the trainer bringing the horses in, than the track they are coming from?

[srdnaty]

Originally Posted by rufus999

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

This may help. Its a purse value index.

[boomman]

Originally Posted by njcurveball

I guess it depends on the circuit you play. My impression as someone who follows Mountaineer is that Fort Erie shippers can kick any horse coming from Suffolk. Even Thistledown horses are better than Suffolk shippers.

Perhaps it is more the trainer bringing the horses in, than the track they are coming from?

Jim: I would agree that it definitely does depend on the circuits you're playing and would suspect that there is a simple answer to the equation. The higher percentage, better Suffolk horses ship to Florida while the bottom level lower % trainers try to get a piece of the pie @ Mountaineer with significantly less stock....Also, as for the Thistledown horses at Mountaineer, I have noticed that the higher % connections tend to ship there and the close proximity to Mountaineer probably doesn't hurt matters either......This is why it's so important for new players at a track to learn the tendencies of that particluar track and how horses perform when they ship to there, whatever circuit they may have raced in prior.......

Boomer

[rufus999]

Originally Posted by srdnaty

This may help. Its a purse value index.

Thanks much

rufus

[46zilzal]

Purse values at Racinos are way out of line as a yardstick for horse quality.

[boomman]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Purse values at Racinos are way out of line as a yardstick for horse quality.

46: Absolutely! The purse value index is a beginning guide only, then the real research and discussion (such as we've had here) begins.....

Boomer

[sjk]

TRACK	AvgOfSR
OTC	90.9
SAR	90.5
BEI	88.9
SA	88.6
DMR	86.9
BEL	86.6
HOL	86.5
KEE	85.0
AQU	83.4
CD	82.0
AQI	81.5
GP	81.0
GG	78.7
FG	77.0
MTH	76.7
AP	75.0
OP	74.7
FPX	74.5
DEL	74.5
BM	73.9
HAW	72.9
CRC	72.8
PLN	72.6
PIM	71.9
LAD	71.3
WO	71.2
LRL	70.9
MED	70.9
LS	70.4
PID	70.2
ELP	70.0
SUN	69.8
SOL	68.0
WOI	68.0
TAM	67.9
HPO	67.8
TP	67.6
SR	67.5
PHA	65.8
ZIA	65.3
CNL	65.0
CNI	64.5
STK	63.9
RP	63.7
TUP	63.6
RUI	63.3
SRP	63.1
HOU	63.0
HST	62.9
RET	62.9
EMD	62.7
EVD	62.5
PRM	62.3
FNO	62.0
CT	61.8
ALB	61.8
TIM	61.7
DED	61.7
SUF	61.6
MNR	61.6
PEN	59.4
YAV	59.3
CBY	59.0
ARP	57.8
STP	57.7
HOO	57.3
FL	56.7
RD	56.5
NP	56.5
FON	56.4
WRD	56.4
FE	56.1
TDN	56.1
FMT	55.8
GLD	55.7
WDS	54.7
FP	54.5
FER	53.4
IND	53.3
PM	52.4
LNN	52.0
CLS	51.3
BEU	50.8
ASD	49.8
BRD	48.6

[The Bit]

Originally Posted by rufus999

How would you rate the following tracks in relation to each other? In terms of the quality of thoroughbreds that run there?

1. Mountaineer, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Suffolk Downs

2. Charlestown, Penn National

3. Beaulah Park ( the 'Twins' don't count, sorry) , Thistledown, River Downs, Hawthorne, Arlington Park.

If I get enough feedback on this I will again ask for your help regarding other track combos. Thanks.

rufus

1. Suffolk, Fort Erie, Finger Lake, the Mountain

2. Charlestown and Penn are a toss up in my opinion.

3. Arlington, Hawthorne, River, Thistle, Beulah

Penn and CTown are very close and I'd lean towards CTown if I had to make a choice, the CTown horses seems to fit in the Maryland circuit at similiar levels better than the Penn horses.