Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

If that's of matter to you, define define.

Yup, Actor is playing the ol' Define Game again. But I'll humor him.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Define matter.

Try this on for size:

1.
the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed:
the matter of which the earth is made.
2.
physical or corporeal substance in general, whether solid, liquid, or gaseous, especially as distinguished from incorporeal substance, as spirit or mind, or from qualities, actions, and the like.
3.
something that occupies space.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

1.
the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed:
the matter of which the earth is made.
2.
physical or corporeal substance in general, whether solid, liquid, or gaseous, especially as distinguished from incorporeal substance, as spirit or mind, or from qualities, actions, and the like.

These two simply kick the can down the road since the obvious next question is "define substance." That definition will likely also have some term yet to be defined. Ultimately you come back to "matter" and the definition is circular. Use any dictionary you want and the same thing will happen. Try it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

3.
something that occupies space.

Not helpful. Energy also occupies space.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

3.
something that occupies space.

Define space.
4 a : a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction

Define extent.
3 c : the amount of space or surface that something occupies or the distance over which it extends :

The circle closes after only two tries. Furthermore the definition of extent closes immediately since it is self referencing.


Are we having fun yet?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

Define space.
4 a : a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction


Are we having fun yet?

So boxcar is correct you need both objects (matter) and events to have "space".

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Define space.
4 a : a boundless three-dimensional extent in which OBJECTS and EVENTS occur and have relative position and DIRECTION[/b] (most of the emphases mine)

Define extent.
3 c : the amount of space or surface that something occupies or the distance over which it extends :

The circle closes after only two tries. Furthermore the definition of extent closes immediately since it is self referencing.


Are we having fun yet?

What part of 4 a, didn't you get?

If you didn't have objects and events occurring in Space, you would not know it's three-dimensional. Back to my analogy of a room. We know that a room is three-dimensional ONLY BECAUSE ITS MATTER REVEALS THAT TO US, i.e. that it has length, height and width.. Remove all the physical boundaries to the room that comprise those three dimensions, and you have NO MORE three-dimensional SPACE, for you have no more room.

You're getting closer and closer to that Hall of Shame to which you seem to have a fatal attraction.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What part of 4 a, didn't you get?

If you didn't have objects and events occurring in Space, you would not know it's three-dimensional. Back to my analogy of a room. We know that a room is three-dimensional ONLY BECAUSE ITS MATTER REVEALS THAT TO US, i.e. that it has length, height and width.. Remove all the physical boundaries to the room that comprise those three dimensions, and you have NO MORE three-dimensional SPACE, for you have no more room.

You're getting closer and closer to that Hall of Shame to which you seem to have a fatal attraction.

The point I was making is that all definitions are either circular or trace back to a primitive term.

The question before that was "Can there be any radiation without Matter?" I see no reason why not.

As for the question before, it's philosophical and I have no interest in it. You and the others carry on.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

The point I was making is that all definitions are either circular or trace back to a primitive term.

The question before that was "Can there be any radiation without Matter?" I see no reason why not.

As for the question before, it's philosophical and I have no interest in it. You and the others carry on.

Well...if all definitions are circular, then evolution is guilty as charged!

Also radiation is the emission and propagation of energy in the form of rays or waves.

And energy is the power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources, especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.

Without Matter, No Energy. Without Energy, no radiation.

I had no idea you were so heavy into the metaphysical, i.e. radiation, energy, etc. Kool.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And energy is the power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources, especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.

Energy is the application of a force through a distance or the potential to apply a force through a distance.

That's the definition of energy. It's in every Physics 101 textbook.

I don't care what kind of energy you name: light, heat, electrical, etc. They can all be shown to come down to that definition. Take my word for it.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Well...if all definitions are circular, then evolution is guilty as charged!

Prove it.

Exactly what is the charge?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I had no idea you were so heavy into the metaphysical, i.e. radiation, energy, etc. Kool.

Physics is all about energy, almost by definition. And it's physical, not metaphysical, hence the name.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Without Matter, No Energy.

Redundant! Matter and energy are the same thing. That's what E = mc^2 means.

Are we having fun yet?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

It's like watching a really bad movie in slow motion.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Anybody won this argument/discussion yet, or will it go on for another 2,000 years?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Church affiliation has nothing to do with salvation.

So Jews and Roman Catholics are saved too??