Probe of NYRA execs may be launched - NYRA may lose slots subsidies

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

He says a lot without really saying anything...I suppose that's rather humorous.

Ahh, waiting for the new set of talking points. I understand.

[PaceAdvantage]

When you know it all, life must be easy...you and Indulto are charmed in that way it seems...

How many laughing emoticons should I use so I can be just like Indulto?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Ahh, waiting for the new set of talking points. I understand.

I've made my point multiple times already...if you don't want to consider it, that's your right of course...no talking points necessary when one actually thinks for one's self and doesn't swallow everything at face value and in it's simplest form.

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

When you know it all, life must be easy...you and Indulto are charmed in that way it seems...

How many laughing emoticons should I use so I can be just like Indulto?

How did I get involved here?

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've made my point multiple times already...if you don't want to consider it, that's your right of course...no talking points necessary when one actually thinks for one's self and doesn't swallow everything at face value and in it's simplest form.

Still haven't gotten the next set of excuses to try, I see.

I've been inviting you to think for yourself for four months on this. My position has been the same and nothing that's come out has necessitated a reevaluation. You on the other hand immediately bought into the "we had no idea" defense. When that failed, it was the "the RWB let/made them do it," which is ridiculous on its face, as we discussed in detail yesterday. Then there's the variations on the "Cuomo will get them if they don't watch out" theme, restatements of which even cj replaced with "blah, blah, blah."

Honestly, if you've got nothing, that's fine, just hang it up. But, don't go saying that I'm not thinking for myself because I'm unwilling to buy into every lame ass excuse that comes down the pike.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've made my point multiple times already...if you don't want to consider it, that's your right of course...no talking points necessary when one actually thinks for one's self and doesn't swallow everything at face value and in it's simplest form.

Does this mean, that those who go to great lengths to find excuses for the NYRA at every opportunity, are the "original" thinkers...while those who think that a crime is a crime no matter who the perpertator is, are the gullible ones?

If that's the case...then count me among the gullible ones.

IMO...California Racing got vilified when they deserved it...and now it's the NYRA's turn.

And the case could be made that what happened in NY was worse -- and has more far-reaching ramifications -- than what occurred in California.

As far as I am concerned, it's as simple as that.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

...while those who think that a crime is a crime no matter who the perpertator is, are the gullible ones?

thaskalos - Do you know that a crime has been committed by the N.Y.R.A or are you just suspecting that ?

[Tom]

Please check out the Monmouth thread......and post accordingly.
Far more concrete evidence in that thread.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

thaskalos - Do you know that a crime has been committed by the N.Y.R.A or are you just suspecting that ?

I am convinced that a crime has been committed by the NYRA...

Unless, illegally -- and knowingly -- syphoning off $8.5 million from the horseplayers does not qualify to be called a "crime".

[Indulto]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I've made my point multiple times already...if you don't want to consider it, that's your right of course...no talking points necessary when one actually thinks for one's self and doesn't swallow everything at face value and in it's simplest form.

IMO you're in denial over this issue, so I'll try to reach you on another level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kq9A4YSLfE

Hint: Read the re-lyricized version below while listening to
Ms. Grant’’s classic rendition.

With apologies to Stanley Lebowsky and Herb Newman:


Oh the wayward Hayward
Is a jobless Hayward
A careless Hayward
Who learned to squander
His credibility
And NYRA’s stability
With his inability
To lower takeout

In an office at a NYRA track
He spent his racing days
And I guess the sight
Of the racino’s light
Dulled his appetite
For lower takeout

Now the wayward Hayward
Still impeccably tailored
Like a restless jay bird
Is doomed to wander
The streets of Elmont
While they run at Belmont
Because he didn’t want
To lower takeout

Oh, he lived in fear of politicos near
Who vowed to cut his salary
But he fooled then all
At the Statehouse Mall
By not making rates fall
For lower takeout

And the wayward Hayward
Is a speechless Hayward
Refusing to say a word
He makes us ponder
Whether Camelot was lost
When he got tossed
But that’s the cost
Of not lowering takeout

NYRA took a step forward
By not looking backward

[cj]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I am convinced that a crime has been committed by the NYRA...

Unless, illegally -- and knowingly -- syphoning off $8.5 million from the horseplayers does not qualify to be called a "crime".

I still say we aren't even sure it was NYRA's responsibility to make sure the proper takeout was implemented. We certainly don't know for a fact it was "knowingly" done as you imply.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I am convinced that a crime has been committed by the NYRA...

Unless, illegally -- and knowingly -- syphoning off $8.5 million from the horseplayers does not qualify to be called a "crime".

As the saying goes, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity/ignorance.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

As the saying goes, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity/ignorance.

Hey Mike...

Correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't the conversation between Crist and Hayward go something like this?

CRIST:
Hey Charlie...I have a gentleman here who claims that your exotics takeouts have been outside the parameters of the law for almost a year now.

Is this man right?


HAYWARD:
Yes Stevie...the gentleman is correct. We were going to address this back then, but the timing was inconvenient. Please keep this between us until the right time comes along to settle this.

Can we discuss it over lunch?


Am I making a mistake here?

Why are some of us so forgiving of matters such as these?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Why are some of us so forgiving of matters such as these?

It's not a matter of being forgiving.
It's a matter of letting Justice take it's course.
The wheels of Justice grind slowly, but they do grind.
The process of the Law demands that anyone is innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law.
If a crime has been committed, then hopefully charges will be laid by the proper authorities against the allegedly guilty individuals.
Until such time all we can do is go on suspicions created by evidence fed to us via the media and others.
Any rush to judgement which skips the due process offered by the law is very premature.
Waiting for that development is not a matter of forgivance.
Should bettors be pissed off because they were ripped off?
Absolutely.
Should bettors believe that something criminal took place?
Not yet.

[foregoforever]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Hey Mike...

Correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't the conversation between Crist and Hayward go something like this?

I think you're wrong. I quoted the whole thing a while back. It went like this:

QUOTED EMAIL:

... Please note that the tri/super/P3/P4 takeout is currently at 26% which is currently outside the parameters of the law.

NYRA may be waiting for the VTL money before they lower any takeouts, but if NYRA wanted to lower takeout all they have to do is make to request to NYSRWB, which would most likely to approve the request.

HAYWARD:

This gentlemen is correct.

(The remainder of that paragraph goes on to explain why NYRA has not requested a reduction.)

The interim report, in its added emphasis, tied Hayward's "correct" to the "outside the law" bit. In the context of the rest of his paragraph, I think it's just as possible that "correct" could have applied to "may be waiting for VLT money" or the rest of that sentence.

I'm not defending NYRA or Hayward. It seems to me that the law clearly required NYRA to adjust the takeouts when the sunset provision kicked in, and I can't figure out how NYRA could have interpreted it any differently.

But the interim report takes some contextual liberties with its emphasis, and this exchange is not the smoking gun that some think it is.