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Old 08-04-2020, 08:49 AM   #5431
boxcar
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Originally Posted by Light View Post
My "beliefs" comes from my experience. And my experience does fit that quote.

First of all God's love is not an "object". It is an internal experience without borders. An "object" is generally external and with defined borders.
Another one with a reading comp problem. You were incapable of understanding the meaning of the term "object" in the context in which I used it?

Main Entry:1ob£ject
Pronunciation:**b-jikt, -(*)jekt
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English, from Medieval Latin objectum, from Latin, neuter of objectus, past participle of obicere to throw in the way, present, hinder, from ob- in the way + jacere to throw— more at OB-, JET
Date:14th century

1 a : something material that may be perceived by the senses *I see an object in the distance* b : something that when viewed stirs a particular emotion (as pity) *look to the tragic loading of this bedT the object poisons sight; let it be hid— Shakespeare*
2 : something mental or physical toward which thought, feeling, or action is directed *an object for study* *the object of my affection* *delicately carved art objects*

3 a : the goal or end of an effort or activity : PURPOSE, OBJECTIVE *their object is to investigate the matter thoroughly* b : a cause for attention or concern *money is no object*
4 : a thing that forms an element of or constitutes the subject matter of an investigation or science
5 a : a noun or noun equivalent (as a pronoun, gerund, or clause) denoting the goal or result of the action of a verb b : a noun or noun equivalent in a prepositional phrase
synonyms see INTENTION
–ob£ject£less \-l*s\ adjective
–ob£ject£less£ness noun


Note definition 3 which I have bolded to call it to your attention to your lazy mind. So, again...I ask: Is the object (goal, purpose, objective) to God's love to get people to feel his love?

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Secondly it's not my job to bring others to God's Love. God's Love will manifest within people when they are ready. Nor am I allowed to interfere in God's timing of when people turn to him.
Really? Who told you it wasn't your job to obey God's commands? The devil? You think you abide in God's love which only shows the depth of your self-deception.

John 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
NASB

The fact that you have zero desire to serve God and be faithful to him betrays your words. And the fact that you have no interest in sharing God's love through the gospel of forgiveness with others in this world tells me that it's quite likely you have never been forgiven. Learn what Jesus is teaching in Lk 7:36-50.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:51 PM   #5432
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I quoted 7 passages in my 5415 in answer to your question and you still don't get it!? You have given new meaning to terms such as "dense" and "dullness". Having said that, however, congrats on coming up with the above passage -- all by yourself yet. Feel free to add it to the 7, since they all teach essentially the same thing.
Still tap dancing confusing the issue. When I asked you in that post...

"Is Jesus the ONLY way to the Father? Your literal interpretation says so."

Referring to.. John 14:6....

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."


You proclaimed in your first sentence of post 5415....

"Of course! What do you think: God is like Rome and all paths lead to Him?"

I ignored your chapter and verse that followed.
I want only your words. The rest muddied the issue. A boxcarian strategy

So after all of your ducking and equivocating, you do not shy away from your totally CHAUVINISTIC, holier-than-thou crapola, placing you the self-appointed arbiter of truth on this thread

You indeed are a used car salesman, pushing your poorly understood "vehicle", on everyone, and myself a non Christian. May I ask what gives you the right to sell an old chevy or ford, claiming "drive it, it is better than any car you own, or can own?"

Particularly when you can not describe where it supposingly "took you"!!
Or continues to take you?

All we can see and here is your broken down old used car lot
and hear claims of "magic" , while you hide behind the curtains of your own raging ego.

Btw, Jesus is the only way for followers of Christ.


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Old 08-04-2020, 02:19 PM   #5433
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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
So, again...I ask: Is the object (goal, purpose, objective) to God's love to get people to feel his love?
Understood.

No, the "purpose" of God's love is not "to get people to feel it". That's like saying the purpose of water is to get people to drink it. Makes no sense. You drink it because you NEED it.

Like water, we NEED God's love because God is our source. Our nature is beings of love because we were created by an infinite being of love . We have an innate need for exchanging human and Divine love with others and ourselves.


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And the fact that you have no interest in sharing God's love through the gospel of forgiveness with others in this world tells me that it's quite likely you have never been forgiven.
Love has nothing to do with religion. Religion takes a few of its good qualities from love, not the other way around. So when I treat someone with love rather than religion, I do a far greater service to them than religion can.
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:23 PM   #5434
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We are both telling you stop theorizing about love and immerse yourself in it.

Meditation removes small "I" from standing in the way of directly experiencing love, compassion and sometimes a profound stillness.
What's the under/over that boxcar ever gets this point.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:36 PM   #5435
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Still tap dancing confusing the issue. When I asked you in that post...

"Is Jesus the ONLY way to the Father? Your literal interpretation says so."

Referring to.. John 14:6....

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."


You proclaimed in your first sentence of post 5415....

"Of course! What do you think: God is like Rome and all paths lead to Him?"

I ignored your chapter and verse that followed.
I want only your words. The rest muddied the issue. A boxcarian strategy

So after all of your ducking and equivocating, you do not shy away from your totally CHAUVINISTIC, holier-than-thou crapola, placing you the self-appointed arbiter of truth on this thread

You indeed are a used car salesman, pushing your poorly understood "vehicle", on everyone, and myself a non Christian. May I ask what gives you the right to sell an old chevy or ford, claiming "drive it, it is better than any car you own, or can own?"

Particularly when you can not describe where it supposingly "took you"!!
Or continues to take you?

All we can see and here is your broken down old used car lot
and hear claims of "magic" , while you hide behind the curtains of your own raging ego.

Btw, Jesus is the only way for followers of Christ.


If you ignore my answers because of scripture, then shame on you. Those passages are the answers to your question -- as well as the one you quoted!
If fact, since you so anti-scripture and don't read my passages, then why do you search the scriptures to come up with one of your own? Did you like yours better than any of my seven?

Conflicted much?
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:07 PM   #5436
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If you ignore my answers because of scripture, then shame on you. Those passages are the answers to your question -- as well as the one you quoted!
If fact, since you so anti-scripture and don't read my passages, then why do you search the scriptures to come up with one of your own? Did you like yours better than any of my seven?

Conflicted much?
You specifically told me all roads do not lead to Rome and claimed Jesus is the only way to the Father.

As I said you sell used cars.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:30 PM   #5437
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What's the under/over that boxcar ever gets this point.
All he will do is give us more chapter and verse. The simplest things sail way over his head.

I keep asking him to describe the "destination", religion and spirituality strive for, his direct experiences, and all he does is tap dance around, and insist I MUST follow the same road he takes. Even though his "road" apparently is in deep disrepair.

Light, may I ask what type of meditation you practice?
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:11 PM   #5438
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You specifically told me all roads do not lead to Rome and claimed Jesus is the only way to the Father.

As I said you sell used cars.
Learn to read. I never said what you claim. I really said that all roads don't lead to God.

Go to night school for remedial reading comp courses.
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:06 PM   #5439
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Light, may I ask what type of meditation you practice?
When I was 20 (I'm 65 now) I was introduced to meditation techniques by an Indian Guru who shall remain nameless. They included techniques for the internal experience of breath, (vibration) Light, music and nectar. I really struggled with the techniques and felt I wasn't getting anywhere but also felt that meditation is the right path to discover who I am. As the Guru said, "Its just you going within you". But i couldn't find me.

Over the years I realized a couple of the techniques (music and nectar) were never productive for me because I felt uncomfortable doing them. So I stopped doing those. This gave me more time for the two techniques I still do today which are the Breath (vibration), the main one, and Light.

The breath/vibration technique is very simple and is the oldest form of meditation which is simply focusing on your breath and ignoring thoughts. The Light technique I modified from what I was taught as it too was a bit uncomfortable, But the modified Light technique I use now is more productive and comfortable. That entails focusing on your Pineal Gland.

So here is my "homemade" version of meditation today. It involves a combination of the Breath and the Light. At first I though this modification was "heresy" until I heard another spiritual leader say that he too modified his meditation until he found what worked for him.

This modification was my own but partially taught to me by a very enlightened being that shall also remain nameless. I have no problem revealing it because it's more the "work" and discipline rather than the technique that will get someone to their destination.

Breathe only through your nose. On inhaling focus your incoming breath on you heart Chakra. The enlightened one taught me that on exhaling, focus your breath on your third eye Chakra as your breath is moving right underneath the Pineal Gland area. Notice this keeps your mind busy switching its attention from the Heart to the head chakras which gives your mind less time to distract you with its thoughts, so you can reach a state of transcendence.

So in the initial breath, you are summoning your love and in exhaling,your love is turning into wisdom through Light. This is different than many who say that when exhaling you are expelling toxins from your body. To me that makes no sense even though they too inhale to the heart Chakra. It would seem if you just inhaled into your heart you wouldn't exhale "toxins",you'd exhale Love. But I think those meditations are more for superficial relaxation techniques rather than meditation designed for self exploration. I meditate everyday religiously 40 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at night. I made it a priority over everything else including work for the last 10 years or so. The heavenly sensations of a love I never knew before that seem like what Jesus was talking about started about 5 or 6 years ago and have gradually increased. But I'm certain I've only experienced the very tip of the iceberg.

I know you said you do a "mantra" and there is a friend I know who teaches "mantra meditation" to various organizations for a living. I do not like that approach because it activates my mental faculties in order to chant the mantra. But we have had long discussions and realized that regardless of the different meditation techniques, they both reach the same desired goal or effect in the end. This is similar to different religions with different approaches but ending up in the same Divine destination.
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:51 PM   #5440
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Understood.

No, the "purpose" of God's love is not "to get people to feel it". That's like saying the purpose of water is to get people to drink it. Makes no sense. You drink it because you NEED it.
Feeling is all you ever talk about. Not once have you ever mentioned about love being expressed through specific acts.

Quote:
Like water, we NEED God's love because God is our source.
We all "need" water to survive; but most in the world don't give the first thought to the ultimate provider of the water.

Quote:
Our nature is beings of love because we were created by an infinite being of love . We have an innate need for exchanging human and Divine love with others and ourselves.
No, our nature is evil -- per your "best friend". Our nature is darkness itself.

You once mocked me for talking about reciprocating love -- now all of a sudden we need to "exchange" love? In what form(s) does this "exchange" take place?


Quote:
Love has nothing to do with religion. Religion takes a few of its good qualities from love, not the other way around. So when I treat someone with love rather than religion, I do a far greater service to them than religion can.
But it has everything to do with God! Read Jn 15:10 again. True love for God can express itself in only one way -- by faithful service and willing obedience to His commands which comes through faith (trust) working through love.
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Old 08-05-2020, 01:29 AM   #5441
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Feeling is all you ever talk about. Not once have you ever mentioned about love being expressed through specific acts.
What "acts" do you have in mind?


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Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
No, our nature is evil
I reiterate, you don't know yourself that's why you say that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar View Post
You once mocked me for talking about reciprocating love -- now all of a sudden we need to "exchange" love? In what form(s) does this "exchange" take place?
For example we set up "families" to fulfill our need to exchange love. Isn't that obvious?

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But it has everything to do with God! Read Jn 15:10 again. True love for God can express itself in only one way -- by faithful service and willing obedience to His commands which comes through faith (trust) working through love.
Yes God has everything to do with Love. But God has nothing to do with religion.

People with NDE's who meet God on the other side say God is not religious. They meet Jesus and he is not religious. They are pure Love.
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Old 08-05-2020, 04:12 AM   #5442
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Learn to read. I never said what you claim. I really said that all roads don't lead to God.

Go to night school for remedial reading comp courses.
I asked you
"Is Jesus the ONLY way to the Father? Your literal interpretation says so"."

Instead of a yes or a no, you wisecracked...

"Of course! What do you think: God is like Rome and all paths lead to Him?"

So cut the crap already and tell me yes or no. You claim to be a religious person? Try being a honest one first.
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Old 08-05-2020, 05:42 AM   #5443
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Originally Posted by Light View Post
When I was 20 (I'm 65 now) I was introduced to meditation techniques by an Indian Guru who shall remain nameless. They included techniques for the internal experience of breath, (vibration) Light, music and nectar. I really struggled with the techniques and felt I wasn't getting anywhere but also felt that meditation is the right path to discover who I am. As the Guru said, "Its just you going within you". But i couldn't find me.

Over the years I realized a couple of the techniques (music and nectar) were never productive for me because I felt uncomfortable doing them. So I stopped doing those. This gave me more time for the two techniques I still do today which are the Breath (vibration), the main one, and Light.

The breath/vibration technique is very simple and is the oldest form of meditation which is simply focusing on your breath and ignoring thoughts. The Light technique I modified from what I was taught as it too was a bit uncomfortable, But the modified Light technique I use now is more productive and comfortable. That entails focusing on your Pineal Gland.

So here is my "homemade" version of meditation today. It involves a combination of the Breath and the Light. At first I though this modification was "heresy" until I heard another spiritual leader say that he too modified his meditation until he found what worked for him.

This modification was my own but partially taught to me by a very enlightened being that shall also remain nameless. I have no problem revealing it because it's more the "work" and discipline rather than the technique that will get someone to their destination.

Breathe only through your nose. On inhaling focus your incoming breath on you heart Chakra. The enlightened one taught me that on exhaling, focus your breath on your third eye Chakra as your breath is moving right underneath the Pineal Gland area. Notice this keeps your mind busy switching its attention from the Heart to the head chakras which gives your mind less time to distract you with its thoughts, so you can reach a state of transcendence.

So in the initial breath, you are summoning your love and in exhaling,your love is turning into wisdom through Light. This is different than many who say that when exhaling you are expelling toxins from your body. To me that makes no sense even though they too inhale to the heart Chakra. It would seem if you just inhaled into your heart you wouldn't exhale "toxins",you'd exhale Love. But I think those meditations are more for superficial relaxation techniques rather than meditation designed for self exploration. I meditate everyday religiously 40 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at night. I made it a priority over everything else including work for the last 10 years or so. The heavenly sensations of a love I never knew before that seem like what Jesus was talking about started about 5 or 6 years ago and have gradually increased. But I'm certain I've only experienced the very tip of the iceberg.

I know you said you do a "mantra" and there is a friend I know who teaches "mantra meditation" to various organizations for a living. I do not like that approach because it activates my mental faculties in order to chant the mantra. But we have had long discussions and realized that regardless of the different meditation techniques, they both reach the same desired goal or effect in the end. This is similar to different religions with different approaches but ending up in the same Divine destination.
I was taught meditation by a disciple of Adi Shankara. A 7th century Indian teacher who formulated Advaita Vedanta, a teaching nondual consciousness.

I was involved for 10+ years in a 4th way school. Organized by P.D. Ouspensky. Before his death he urged his students to seek out the esoteric sources his teacher G.I. Gurdjieff spoke of. Ouspenky's group did connect with two. One was the Shankaracharya of Northern India in the 1960's.

The teaching points to the difficulty of our ever busy ordinary mind which interferes and blocks real consciousness. We are mired by either restless activity or restless inactivity. Two sides of lower mind. However above and "containing" these lower energies, Tams,(sloth). and unconscious movement, Rajas, is Satva, or clarity and stillness. The energy of divine origin. And that is an attainable goal nearby.

The mantra is not "chanted" or vocalized. The actual word that is used, is purposefully designed to have no intellectual or emotional connotations. It is a vibration intended to resonate neutrally in lower mind. One repeats that vibration internally without any external word or sound. With one pointed attention on that inner sound.

At first glance what could be easier? As you know, our usual state of mind is churning constantly. It latches on to many things. Past experiences and thoughts, present and future plans, what to eat for dinner.

When involved in any life activity our minds are intended to pay attention. A reasonable measure of thinking clarity in life, is the ability to do something well with focused awareness. However the proper energy is needed. Our minds need to gather that energy from somewhere and not just throw it away. One goal of meditation is real rest. Stillness of the body, the intellect and the emotions allows Satva to permeate down from real mind.

What could be easier? Try sitting quietly and NOT thinking of an "elephant." One can not do that Active resistance or directly suppressing that thought is a problem. The solution of meditation of many traditions is to simply provide something else on to which we may actively place one's attention.

Our noisy usual mind has herds of elephants popping in and out of existence

Recently my attention on my mantra has gone deeper. Fewer "herds" of all sorts are distracting me. Allowing Satva to collect in greater amounts.

In Advaita Vedanta, there is Atman, and Para Atman. Atman is within us, a reflection of Para Atman without us.

Atman provides Satva when we keep quiet and move out of the way.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:11 AM   #5444
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I asked you
"Is Jesus the ONLY way to the Father? Your literal interpretation says so"."

Instead of a yes or a no, you wisecracked...

"Of course! What do you think: God is like Rome and all paths lead to Him?"

So cut the crap already and tell me yes or no. You claim to be a religious person? Try being a honest one first.
You really see in people's post only what you want to see. I started off my answer to your question of "Is Jesus the only way to God" with OF COURSE!! What part of that didn't you get?
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:35 AM   #5445
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What "acts" do you have in mind?
The kinds of acts the bible speaks of. Have you never read the parable of the Good Samaritan? Don't you know that God's chosen people are called to good works (Eph 2:10)? Don't you know that Jesus said that his disciples must act on his words?

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I reiterate, you don't know yourself that's why you say that.
I reiterate that you don't know Jesus because if you did you'd believe him. He taught that man is evil. He taught that only God alone is good, etc.

Quote:
For example we set up "families" to fulfill our need to exchange love. Isn't that obvious?
We don't set up families. Family is a God-ordained institution like marriage, for example. And do you limit your love to just family? If so, that is not biblical.

Quote:
Yes God has everything to do with Love. But God has nothing to do with religion.
So...you think Jesus was waxing "religious" in Jn 15:10?

Furthermore, you need to define religion. What is your definition of "religion"? I bet it's not even close to the bible's definition:

James 1:27
27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
NIV

The biblical principle here is twofold: Do good to others and don't defile yourself with the philosophies and religions of the world, as you have done with your Buddhism, etc.

Quote:
People with NDE's who meet God on the other side say God is not religious. They meet Jesus and he is not religious. They are pure Love.
How do you know they didn't meet Satan on the other side who can disguise himself as an "angel of light"?
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