Religious

[Actor]

[YT=""]oDcZkrl-eoY[/YT]

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

I quoted Jas 2:19 as a response to your question about what Apostle Paul said to the prison guard. The quote showed there has to be more than a belief on Jesus. Which you admitted.

No I did not admit to anything. But now you're saying that Paul and Silas gave a false gospel to the Philippian jailer? Did they lie to the jailer?

I did not ask you about faith, so no you did not help me or anyone else who wants to know if they have to love God in order to be saved. Stay focused on the actual question I asked.

What part of "faith working through love" don't you get?

Okay lets run with this for now. When does this regeneration take place? Are these people regenerated before or after they are saved? More importantly do they have to love God before they are regenerated?

I already told you when regeneration takes place. Learn to read. And how can the [spiritually] dead love God when by nature they are children of wrath? When by nature they are enemies of God?

Read John 5 some day. Perhaps, by God's grace, you'll get a handle on the connection between love and faith.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

No I did not admit to anything. But now you're saying that Paul and Silas gave a false gospel to the Philippian jailer? Did they lie to the jailer?

Lies, lies and more lies.

Tell me does Scripture actually state, in Acts 16:30 ff, what Apostle Paul spake to the jailer? My written hard copy is silent as to the actual word they spake. Are the actual words Paul spoke to the jailer in your hard copy, your digitized copy, or the copy of the Bible between your ears?

Not actually knowing what words the Apostle used there is no possible way for me to conclude it was a false Gospel. as you accuse me of doing. However, I am sure even without out knowing what Apostle Paul actually stated when he spoke to the jailer, that Paul told the Gospel which Jesus personally taught Paul. Not only did they not lie, they baptized him.

The only way you can conclude such a false charge against me is that your words and teachings are equal to the Apostle Paul and you should be esteemed as Apostle Paul's equal.

What part of "faith working through love" don't you get?

Already explained to you how you used it out of context.

I already told you when regeneration takes place. Learn to read.

More lies. You told us when election takes place, in eternity past. Regeneration is substantially different. If I believed the error of Calvinism, regeneration could take place at any time during the elect's life. For example, the repentant thief on the cross. Obviously he was regenerated hours, minutes, seconds (?) before his death.

BTW he is one of the people we know who is in heaven. Proving you lied when you proclaimed we do not know who is in heaven.

And how can the [spiritually] dead love God when by nature they are children of wrath? When by nature they are enemies of God?

You should know that answer, better than I. According to Jesus, you have no life in you. 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:53 (KJV)

Read John 5 some day. Perhaps, by God's grace, you'll get a handle on the connection between love and faith.

You should read John 6 and by the mercy and grace of God you may delivered form your many errors, your deceitfulness, your lack of wisdom and the false belief your teachings carry the same weight as Jesus and the apostles and being infallible.

And don't call me a liar. You have proclaimed yourself to be infallible in your interpretations, stating you interpret Scripture as Jesus (the incarnate word) did and as the prophets of Israel did.

You should also read, 1 Timothy 3:15. You are not infallible, in your interpretations and you are not the Church.

Your fellow Protestant brethren claim the same source of their authority,as you do, which is the Bible. Accordingly, you cannot claim that your preaching is more authoritative than Joel O., the reformed preacher I cited earlier or any other preacher of God's word who claims their source authority to preach comes from the Bible.

To recap, according to Jesus, you have no life in you and you are not the Church, and you are not infallible in your teachings. Meaning you are spiritually dead and you do not possess truth and your teachings are ripe with errors.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Actor

[YT=""]oDcZkrl-eoY[/YT]

May I ask what is the point? Mr. Harris stated science is not opposed to the idea of consciousness surviving after death. Does that not mean science is still open to the idea? He also stated that there is a weight of evidence against it as of now. I agree with him.

If this video is a response to my postings, could you explain to me what is the point?

[Show Me the Wire]

The following is meant as a p.s. to my above post 25293.

Know this boxcar, I would not have made the post if you had not accused me of implying Apostle Paul preached a false Gospel and of being a liar.

However, in Jesus' name I forgive you, thus the Eternal Father will forgive you because I have.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Lies, lies and more lies.

Tell me does Scripture actually state, in Acts 16:30 ff, what Apostle Paul spake to the jailer? My written hard copy is silent as to the actual word they spake. Are the actual words Paul spoke to the jailer in your hard copy, your digitized copy, or the copy of the Bible between your ears?

Not actually knowing what words the Apostle used there is no possible way for me to conclude it was a false Gospel. as you accuse me of doing. However, I am sure even without out knowing what Apostle Paul actually stated when he spoke to the jailer, that Paul told the Gospel which Jesus personally taught Paul. Not only did they not lie, they baptized him.

Since you say your bible is silent on the exact words of Paul and/or Silas, then you should toss your corrupted version. Isn't Act 16:31 in your Catholic bible? If it is you have the exact words Paul and/or Silas spoke to the jailer. So...why are you lying again? Did they preach a false gospel to the jailer? Did they lead him astray?

The only way you can conclude such a false charge against me is that your words and teachings are equal to the Apostle Paul and you should be esteemed as Apostle Paul's equal.

Now, you're catching on. True disciples of Christ preach the same gospel as Jesus and Paul did. So...that makes my gospel equal to theirs. I add nothing to it, nor subtract anything from it.

Already explained to you how you used it out of context.

No, you didn't. Not unless you think justification has nothing to do salvation. According to my bible if a person is justified by faith or by grace, he's SAVED. But now you don't believe justification has anything to do with salvation? Are you suggesting a person can be justified without being saved or saved without being justified?

More lies. You told us when election takes place, in eternity past. Regeneration is substantially different. If I believed the error of Calvinism, regeneration could take place at any time during the elect's life. For example, the repentant thief on the cross. Obviously he was regenerated hours, minutes, seconds (?) before his death.

I am the liar or you are? Why do you persist in projecting your vile sin habit of lying onto me? For someone who thinks he's a Christian, you're one of the biggest liars on this forum. Either that you truly are illiterate in more ways than one. Here is what I wrote in part yesterday in 25288:

And I answered your dumb question about love and faith. Genuine faith always works through love. Since regeneration precedes faith and repentance and the Holy Spirit is love, then all regenerated saints have the the love of God within them which enables them, in turn, to love God and exercise saving faith. I bet you don't know that the Pharisees didn't believe in Jesus because they didn't have the love of God in them, do you?

What part of the verb "precedes" don't you get?

BTW he is one of the people we know who is in heaven. Proving you lied when you proclaimed we do not know who is in heaven.

The only reason we know is because the bible reveals that to us. Does your bible tell you where every dead person who has ever lived is currently residing in eternity? I'm sure many of us would love to see that revelation.

You should know that answer, better than I. According to Jesus, you have no life in you. 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:53 (KJV)

But I thought you Catholics ate the body (literally) of Christ and drank is blood (literally) only at the sacrament of Communion? So...are you saying that no one can be saved unless he's in a Catholic church taking communion? What about that repentant thief on the Cross you just mentioned? Did he take Communion? Are you saying that the sacrament of Communion is prerequisite to salvation? No once can be saved unless he or she receives Communion RCC-style?

And what about the people Jesus spoke to in John 6 which occurred way before the Last Supper at which the sacrament of communion was instituted? What if any of them truly believed but died before the revelation of the institution of the sacrament reached their ears? Or did they engage in cannibalism? Did some of them literally eat Jesus' body and literally drink his blood before the Last Supper and then Jesus put his body pieces back together and gave himself a blood transfusion miraculously?

But for your info my bible tells me this about LIFE and salvation:

John 11:26
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this? "
NASB

Notice carefully the order of the first two verbs -- LIFE preceding faith! And this makes sense. Dead people aren't really in very good position to do much of anything, you know what I mean?

You should read John 6 and by the mercy and grace of God you may delivered form your many errors, your deceitfulness, your lack of wisdom and the false belief your teachings carry the same weight as Jesus and the apostles and being infallible.

Don't you know how to "test the spirits" to see if someone is teaching or preaching truth?

And don't call me a liar. You have proclaimed yourself to be infallible in your interpretations, stating you interpret Scripture as Jesus (the incarnate word) did and as the prophets of Israel did.

But I have to call you a liar. For I never proclaimed that my interpretations were infallible. I only claim that for the Word of God.

You should also read, 1 Timothy 3:15. You are not infallible, in your interpretations and you are not the Church.

Again, you lie. I am the Church. I am a living stone of the Christ's church! I along with all other true disciples of Christ am the Church! I am also a priest of the Most High God, along with all other true believers.

1 Peter 2:4-5
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected by men, but choice and precious in the sight of God, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
NASB

And,

Eph 2:19-22
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
NASB

To sum up: The Church is all of God's Chosen People! The Church is everyone who has the Holy Spirit living within them! Live it, love it and learn it!

Your fellow Protestant brethren claim the same source of their authority,as you do, which is the Bible. Accordingly, you cannot claim that your preaching is more authoritative than Joel O., the reformed preacher I cited earlier or any other preacher of God's word who claims their source authority to preach comes from the Bible.

To recap, according to Jesus, you have no life in you and you are not the Church, and you are not infallible in your teachings. Meaning you are spiritually dead and you do not possess truth and your teachings are ripe with errors.

When was your last confession? Better make an appointment beforehand with your favorite black robe because I suspect that if you could find an honest bone in your body, you'd be in that box for a month of Sundays! And then another month of Sundays wearing out your prayer beads for penance!

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Yes, I believe and they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

So what does that have to do with you. You are not Apostle Paul are you? If you are not Apostle Paul how do I know you speak the word of the Lord?

Read the following, perhaps you'll learn what it means to "test the spirits".

http://www.gotquestions.org/QOTW.htm

Then you wrote yesterday:

So apparently there is more to being saved than just believing on Lord Jesus.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:19

So, once again, I ask you: Did Paul and/or Silas lead the jailer astray? Did they preach a false gospel to the man? You're saying two things above: First, that there is MORE to being saved than merely believing on Lord Jesus. Yet, that is precisely what Paul and/or Silas told the jailer! Obviously, you're not in agreement with the Paul-Silas tag team, are you? Did Paul and/or Silas lie to the jailer? Did Paul and/or Silas preach a false gospel? Or are you the liar!?

Secondly, you further reinforce your disbelief in what Paul and Silas told the jailer by appealing to Jas 2:19. In you warped, twisted logic you seem to think that since the demons "believe", and yet will be condemned, that this must mean that more than faith is involved in a person's salvation. In fact, you state this very thing! You are pitting this text against Acts 16:31 to make this very point!

So...tell us, please: What must we all do to be saved?. Let's hear the Gospel of Christ from the "sanctified" but unauthorized lips of a Roman Catholic! What must we all do to be saved? What must we all do to be justified in God's sight?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

The following is meant as a p.s. to my above post 25293.

Know this boxcar, I would not have made the post if you had not accused me of implying Apostle Paul preached a false Gospel and of being a liar.

However, in Jesus' name I forgive you, thus the Eternal Father will forgive you because I have.

Wow! You have a lot of weight with the Eternal Father. You snap your fingers and he jumps!

[Show Me the Wire]

A

nd I answered your dumb question about love and faith. Genuine faith always works through love. Since regeneration precedes faith and repentance and the Holy Spirit is love, then all regenerated saints have the the love of God within them which enables them, in turn, to love God and exercise saving faith. I bet you don't know that the Pharisees didn't believe in Jesus because they didn't have the love of God in them, do you?

A meaningless answer as I never asked you about love and faith. I asked you about if loving God is required before you are saved. It is impossible to have a civil conversation with you.

The misunderstanding about when regeneration takes place is on me. I was not clear enough. I wanted to know the time frame and not the sequence of events. So my fault mea culpa.

Since you say your bible is silent on the exact words of Paul and/or Silas, then you should toss your corrupted version. Isn't Act 16:31 in your Catholic bible? If it is you have the exact words Paul and/or Silas spoke to the jailer. So...why are you lying again? Did they preach a false gospel to the jailer? Did they lead him astray?

However, I am sure even without out knowing what Apostle Paul actually stated when he spoke to the jailer, that Paul told the Gospel which Jesus personally taught Paul. Not only did they not lie, they baptized him.


Tell me the exact words you seem to know they spake according to verse 32. Did they just say "word of the Lord"?

Now, you're catching on. True disciples of Christ preach the same gospel as Jesus and Paul did. So...that makes my gospel equal to theirs. I add nothing to it, nor subtract anything from it.

So we are back to that you are the pillar and truth, you are infallible and every other preacher who claims their source of authority to interpret Scripture comes from the Bible is wrong and should bow to you. And you say I have a high opinion of myself. I have news for you boxcar I caught on about you long ago.

The only reason we know is because the bible reveals that to us. Does your bible tell you where every dead person who has ever lived is currently residing in eternity? I'm sure many of us would love to see that revelation.

No. However it tells us specific people who are and if you believe Jesus all those who were martyred, losing their earthly lives for Jesus sake have received life. So why do you continue to say we don't know who is heaven. We may not know everyone that is heaven, but we certainly know some. Knowing that God is the God of the living we can be confident in that knowledge.

But I thought you Catholics ate the body (literally) of Christ and drank is blood (literally) only at the sacrament of Communion? So...are you saying that no one can be saved unless he's in a Catholic church taking communion? What about that repentant thief on the Cross you just mentioned? Did he take Communion? Are you saying that the sacrament of Communion is prerequisite to salvation? No once can be saved unless he or she receives Communion RCC-style?

That you have to ask Jesus. I said according to Jesus you have no life in you. John, in his Gospel, recorded Jesus' words about not having life if you don't eat his flesh and drink his blood. So according to Jesus you have no life in you and thus you are spiritually dead, because you are certainly alive in your flesh or you would not be posting.

Wow! You have a lot of weight with the Eternal Father. You snap your fingers and he jumps!

I have a lot of faith in Jesus and the weight of his glory he carries with the Eternal Father. Jesus said anything you ask of the Father, in my name, will be given to you. I asked the Father to forgive you in the name of Jesus. You don't believe Scripture do you?

And what about the people Jesus spoke to in John 6 which occurred way before the Last Supper at which the sacrament of communion was instituted? What if any of them truly believed but died before the revelation of the institution of the sacrament reached their ears? Or did they engage in cannibalism?

Interesting, you bring the exact same charge of cannibalism against Christianity as the pagan Romans did.

Don't you know how to "test the spirits" to see if someone is teaching or preaching truth?

Obviously I do. That is how I know your teachings are not infallible and there is no Scriptural truth in you. Which is evidenced by your jeering at the idea the Eternal Father would grant you forgiveness for your false accusations against me, as asked in the name of Jesus. Did you forget I always ask you the source of your authority to teach and interpret Scripture?

But I have to call you a liar. For I never proclaimed that my interpretations were infallible.

Do I have to quote you again, or did you forget when you called me a liar before regarding your infallibility?

Again, you lie. I am the Church. I am a living stone of the Christ's church! I along with all other true disciples of Christ am the Church! I am also a priest of the Most High God, along with all other true believer

You are not the Church, you maybe a part of the Church. I am a priest of the royal priesthood too. I can offer a sacrifice of praise, spiritual sacrifices directly to the Most High God. That is why the Eternal Father will grant my prayer of forgiveness for you, because of my royal priesthood through Jesus.

However, a stone is not the complete structure and therefore by itself is not the pillar and foundation of truth.

And you tell me you believe Scripture. Tell us again the chapter and verse which teaches boxcar is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Eph 2:19-22
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
NASB

Exactly, that is why I belong to the Catholic Church. There is a visible Church. The visible Church built upon Peter, founded by Jesus per the will of the Eternal Father and empowered by the Holy Spirit. My Church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles, with Jesus as the cornerstone. There also is the invisible Church of which you speak.

I asked you before about your visible Church, if it had any of the signs of my visible Church? Does it pleas tell?

So...tell us, please: What must we all do to be saved?. Let's hear the Gospel of Christ from the "sanctified" but unauthorized lips of a Roman Catholic! What must we all do to be saved? What must we all do to be justified in God's sight?

Are you going to revert back to your original visible Church, the Church of your baptism? If not I will leave you where you are.

You seem to have a problem understanding who your enemies are. Your enemies are not flesh and blood. I am flesh and blood so I am not your enemy, but you treat me as one. I sincerely hope you get everything you hope for.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

A

A meaningless answer as I never asked you about love and faith. I asked you about if loving God is required before you are saved. It is impossible to have a civil conversation with you.

It's not a meaningless answer. Faith always works through love because the Holy Spirit is love; and it's simply not possible for any indwelt believer to not love God.

The misunderstanding about when regeneration takes place is on me. I was not clear enough. I wanted to know the time frame and not the sequence of events. So my fault mea culpa.

Who knows what the "time frame" is for regeneration, other than the fact that unlike election which takes place in eternity, regeneration occurs in this age. Election is by divine decree. Regeneration is experiential and life-transforming.

However, I am sure even without out knowing what Apostle Paul actually stated when he spoke to the jailer, that Paul told the Gospel which Jesus personally taught Paul. Not only did they not lie, they baptized him.


Well, you're singing a different tune now because yesterday you said, "apparently there is something more than just faith". But that's all they told the jailer -- to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. So...is there something more?

Tell me the exact words you seem to know they spake according to verse 32. Did they just say "word of the Lord"?

Why don't you quote verse 32 for us out of your version of the bible?

So we are back to that you are the pillar and truth, you are infallible and every other preacher who claims their source of authority to interpret Scripture comes from the Bible is wrong and should bow to you. And you say I have a high opinion of myself. I have news for you boxcar I caught on about you long ago.

I never said I was infallible. You are putting words in my mouth.

No. However it tells us specific people who are and if you believe Jesus all those who were martyred, losing their earthly lives for Jesus sake have received life. So why do you continue to say we don't know who is heaven. We may not know everyone that is heaven, but we certainly know some. Knowing that God is the God of the living we can be confident in that knowledge.

Unless you're omniscient like God you don't know, except in the most general terms as those are revealed in scripture. You have no idea where any of your deceased fellow Catholics are.

That you have to ask Jesus. I said according to Jesus you have no life in you. John, in his Gospel, recorded Jesus' words about not having life if you don't eat his flesh and drink his blood. So according to Jesus you have no life in you and thus you are spiritually dead, because you are certainly alive in your flesh or you would not be posting.

So you don't know or won't tell us if the sacrament of Communion is a prerequisite for salvation? Again, what about the repentant thief on the cross: Did he somehow extricate himself from his cross tol literally cannibalize Christ and suck on his blood, and then crawl back up on his cross, afterward? Or did one of the cowardly apostles show to give the thief Communion? Maybe John served it up?

I have a lot of faith in Jesus and the weight of his glory he carries with the Eternal Father. Jesus said anything you ask of the Father, in my name, will be given to you. I asked the Father to forgive you in the name of Jesus. You don't believe Scripture do you?

So, what did you ask the Eternal Father?

Interesting, you bring the exact same charge of cannibalism against Christianity as the pagan Romans did.

Of course! Who wouldn't since you interpret Jesus' words literally?

Obviously I do. That is how I know your teachings are not infallible and there is no Scriptural truth in you. Which is evidenced by your jeering at the idea the Eternal Father would grant you forgiveness for your false accusations against me, as asked in the name of Jesus. Did you forget I always ask you the source of your authority to teach and interpret Scripture?

I am the child of the Eternal Father and a priest of the Most High. That's my authority.

Do I have to quote you again, or did you forget when you called me a liar before regarding your infallibility?

Sure, quote me. I never said my interpretations were infallible.

You are not the Church, you maybe a part of the Church. I am a priest of the royal priesthood too. I can offer a sacrifice of praise, spiritual sacrifices directly to the Most High God. That is why the Eternal Father will grant my prayer of forgiveness for you, because of my royal priesthood through Jesus.

That's right. And as a member of the Body of Christ, I have all the authority I need from scripture to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

However, a stone is not the complete structure and therefore by itself is not the pillar and foundation of truth.

But I am an organic part of the Church. The church is not a building as you seem to think.

And you tell me you believe Scripture. Tell us again the chapter and verse which teaches boxcar is the pillar and foundation of the truth.



Exactly, that is why I belong to the Catholic Church. There is a visible Church. The visible Church built upon Peter, founded by Jesus per the will of the Eternal Father and empowered by the Holy Spirit. My Church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles, with Jesus as the cornerstone. There also is the invisible Church of which you speak.

I asked you before about your visible Church, if it had any of the signs of my visible Church? Does it pleas tell?

Are you going to revert back to your original visible Church, the Church of your baptism? If not I will leave you where you are.

You seem to have a problem understanding who your enemies are. Your enemies are not flesh and blood. I am flesh and blood so I am not your enemy, but you treat me as one. I sincerely hope you get everything you hope for.

My enemies are the enemies of Christ. Christ and I have the same enemies. Christ taught that the world (flesh and blood) would hate his disciples just as it hated him.

Paul never taught that only the demons are our enemies. Instead what he taught is that the Christians' real warfare is not against flesh and blood. I never said I was at war with you or at war with any unbeliever.

So, tell us: What must we do to be saved? What must we do to be justified in God's eyes? You obviously don't agree with what was said to the jailer. So, what is your version of the gospel?

[Show Me the Wire]

Sure, quote me. I never said my interpretations were infallible.

Here is your quote.

boxcar said:

Also, my hermeneutic is "infallible" as I interpret the same way
Jesus, the prophets and the apostles interpreted the scriptures.

You don't even remember what you claim because they are so outlandish. Heremeneutics is a way of interpreting Scripture, so if your heremeneutics are infallible your interpretations are infallible. You interpret the same way Jesus, the prophets and the apostles

No, boxcar I do not lie, but go ahead and keep on accusing me and others as being liars for calling you on your idiotic claims.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Here is your quote.

boxcar said:



You don't even remember what you claim because they are so outlandish. Heremeneutics is a way of interpreting Scripture, so if your heremeneutics are infallible your interpretations are infallible. You interpret the same way Jesus, the prophets and the apostles

Did you miss the quotation marks around "infallible"? Do you know what those mean? Do you even know what "scarce quotes" mean in the English language?

No, boxcar I do not lie, but go ahead and keep on accusing me and others as being liars for calling you on your idiotic claims.

You just did!

[Show Me the Wire]

My enemies are the enemies of Christ. Christ and I have the same enemies. Christ taught that the world (flesh and blood) would hate his disciples just as it hated him.

Even if you have flesh and blood enemies are you not commanded to love them?

I am not an enemy of Christ, so what is your point. Not believing what you say does not make me an enemy of Christ.

Well, you're singing a different tune now because yesterday you said, "apparently there is something more than just faith". But that's all they told the jailer -- to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. So...is there something more?

That is what I said yesterday, so no I did not change any tune. You apparently don't read what is actually written to you or you lack comprehension skills.

For example:

It's not a meaningless answer.

It was meaningless in relation to my question. You take statements out of context and you expect us to trust your infallibility of your interpretations.

Who knows what the "time frame" is for regeneration, other than the fact that unlike election which takes place in eternity, regeneration occurs in this age. Election is by divine decree. Regeneration is experiential and life-transforming.

Why bring this up? I already said it was my mistake? Do you like beating a dead horse?

So you don't know or won't tell us if the sacrament of Communion is a prerequisite for salvation? Again, what about the repentant thief on the cross: Did he somehow extricate himself from his cross tol literally cannibalize Christ and suck on his blood, and then crawl back up on his cross, afterward? Or did one of the cowardly apostles show to give the thief Communion? Maybe John served it up?

I told you ask Jesus. Are you saying St. John, who is in heaven too, lied? You are actually calling St. John and Jesus liars. When you get to see Jesus and you will you can ask him why he said If you don't eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you. I am sure you will find out on judgment day if it is a perquisite or not. Maybe you can explain why you followed the disciples that left him, because the teaching was too hard and did not stay with the apostles and Jesus.

So you believe the pagans that Christians are cannibals. Not very surprising.

Unless you're omniscient like God you don't know, except in the most general terms as those are revealed in scripture. You have no idea where any of your deceased fellow Catholics are.

That is not the point at all. When you were asked why you don't believe in asking saints in heaven for intercessory prayers, you replied we don't know who is in heaven. Which is a lie, we know for certain that specific people are in heaven and they are living and you can ask for their intercessory. prayers.

So, what did you ask the Eternal Father?

I told you. Don't you remember?

But I am an organic part of the Church. The church is not a building as you seem to think.

Quote me. I like to see where I implied the Church is a building. You do understand what the "visible" Church means? It does not mean a building, if that is what you believe I meant.

The important part is you are one part of the Church. One part organic or not does not equate the whole. A little toe is part of the foot which is part of the body. A little toe, attached to a foot does not make the body, it does not even make a foot.

Just as a little toe is not the body nor the foot, you are not the Church. You are not the pillar and foundation of truth. I or nobody else is required to accept you and especially your infallible interpretation as truth.

Paul never taught that only the demons are our enemies. Instead what he taught is that the Christians' real warfare is not against flesh and blood. I never said I was at war with you or at war with any unbeliever.

You sure act like you are at war with everyone. Regardless you are commanded to love your flesh and blood enemies.

What must we do to be saved? What must we do to be justified in God's eyes? You obviously don't agree with what was said to the jailer. So, what is your version of the gospel?

Why do you say I don't agree with what was said? Why don't you tell me the exact words Apostle Paul told the jailer and his family when he spake about the Lord.

This is what my Bible states:

32 They spoke the word of the Lord[f] to him and to all who were in his house. 33 At the same hour of the night he took them and washed their wounds; then he and his entire family were baptized without delay.



Apparently your Bible is more in depth, so tell me what does your Bible state that I am missing. Which version of the Gospel did Paul use? Did he use Mark's? Probably not, the Pauline Churches were partial to Matthew? Maybe he used Luke's or maybe he used John's Gospel? Maybe he used his own? So tell me what he actually said to the jailer when Paul spake about the Lord.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Even if you have flesh and blood enemies are you not commanded to love them?

Love isn't the issue. A non-sequitur. You said Christians' enemies aren't flesh and blood, which again makes you a liar or proves again that you're woefully ignorant of scripture since the bible teaches differently.

I am not an enemy of Christ, so what is your point. Not believing what you say does not make me an enemy of Christ.

I told you ask Jesus. Are you saying St. John, who is in heaven too, lied? You are actually calling St. John and Jesus liars. When you get to see Jesus and you will you can ask him why he said If you don't eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you. I am sure you will find out on judgment day if it is a perquisite or not. Maybe you can explain why you followed the disciples that left him, because the teaching was too hard and did not stay with the apostles and Jesus.

I'm asking you because YOU are the one who quoted the passage. So, explain it to us. Why don't you explain it? How was the thief saved if he had to cannibalize Christ? Or how were the folks in John 6 saved since they had to cannibalize Christ?

So you believe the pagans that Christians are cannibals. Not very surprising.

No, I believe your LITERAL interpretation of the John 6 passage is beyond absurd. Anyone who interprets Jesus' words literally can only logically conclude that He was teaching cannibalism. "Eat my body, drink my blood" -- and these were words spoken long before the Last Supper. Communion wasn't instituted until the night before Jesus died. So...in John 6 Jesus could only have been teaching cannibalism. Those verbs "eat" and "drink" are in the PRESENT tense. Jesus wasn't inviting his hearers to eat and drink at some future date. A literal interpretation can only mean that Jesus was inviting his disciples to chow down on him right there and then and to sip his blood through a straw.

So, tell us how is it possible the thief on the cross could have been saved? How did the thief manage to cannibalize Christ?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Which version of the Gospel did Paul use? Did he use Mark's?

Published circa 70 C.E.

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Probably not, the Pauline Churches were partial to Matthew?

Circa 80 C.E.

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Maybe he used Luke's ...

Circa 80 C.E.

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

... or maybe he used John's Gospel?

Circa 100 C.E.

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Maybe he used his own?

Did he write one?

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

So tell me what he actually said to the jailer when Paul spake about the Lord.

Death of Paul: 67 C.E. according to tradition. Previous to all the above. Of course that's assuming Paul existed at all.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

May I ask what is the point? Mr. Harris stated science is not opposed to the idea of consciousness surviving after death. Does that not mean science is still open to the idea? He also stated that there is a weight of evidence against it as of now. I agree with him.

If this video is a response to my postings, could you explain to me what is the point?

I thought the point was quite obvious. After watching it again I still think so.

This "idea of consciousness surviving after death" brings up the question brings up the question of what is the function of the brain? In a previous post I brought up the case of Phineas Gage who had a rod driven through his skull, taking out part of his brain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

Phineas P. Gage (1823 – May 21, 1860) was an American railroad construction foreman remembered for his improbable[B1]:19 survival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe, and for that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining twelve years of his life—​​effects sufficiently profound (for a time at least) that friends saw him as "no longer Gage."

I brought up this incident in March of last year. Boxcar's explanation of Mr. Gage's personality change was that Mr. Gage had a bad hair day.

Digression: This statement by boxcar is unbelievable. The best this so-called-Christian from Swampland can do is to trivialize Mr. Gage's tragic accident by calling it a bad hair day. Unbelievable! End of digression.

Boxcar never answered my question "what is the function of the human brain?" Post #17926.

But enough about boxie.


There is a nexus between NDEs, Mr. Gage's tragedy, the "idea of consciousness surviving after death" and Mr. Harris's video. The evidence is overwhelming that the brain is a necessary element for thought. We can map the brain and know that certain mental functions are carried out by certain parts of the brain.

Can you cite any case of an NDE where the subjects brain was fully functional during the experience? You cannot! (If you think you can, speak up.) Every subject of an NDE was suffering from a condition where the brain was not fully functional. That fact alone should raise red flags all over. Yet believers are so eager to believe that they are willing to accept claims without checking them out.

Is it possible for consciousness to survive when the brain dies? If so then that implies that the brain is not necessary for consciousness. But that raises the question of why behavior can be so dramatically altered by damage to the brain?