Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Not necessarily. Humans tend to frown on this behavior because they evolved that way. But with billions of starts in the galaxy, with billions of billions of galaxies in the universe a species could very well have evolved where the survival strategy is for males to kill off the competition for mates and/or to kill off the offspring of other males. Survival of the fittest. There are species on earth for which this kind of strategy works. Ergo, your example is not universal in scope.

A non sequitur. In this modern world, no society lets a cold-blooded murderer, who kills for the fun, pleasure or excitement of it off the hook when caught.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

A non sequitur. In this modern world, no society lets a cold-blooded murderer, who kills for the fun, pleasure or excitement of it off the hook when caught.

I was not talking about "this" world but about all worlds in the universe which support intelligent life, of which there are probably billions.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

I was not talking about "this" world but about all worlds in the universe which support intelligent life, of which there are probably billions.

That's nice. I'm talking about my homey world. I don't care about your fantasy worlds that Star Trek or such invented.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I'm talking about my homey world.

Your claim is "But the irrefutable fact remains that this one particular rule, under discussion, is universal in scope." The universe is far, far more than your "homey world." You cannot be absolutely certain that there are not billions of other intelligent species out there.

Originally Posted by boxcar

I don't care about your fantasy worlds that Star Trek or such invented.

Straw man. Everyone knows that Star Trek is a fantasy. We even know who wrote it. The fact that Star Trek is a fantasy in no way precludes the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe.

Your second claim from the same post is "All societies kinda frown on this kind of killing." Not true. The ancient Romans had gladiatorial games where two men would fight to the death for the entertainment of an audience, i.e., for fun. The audience, the politicians, the whole of Roman society were all complicit in this and did not "kinda frown" on it.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Your claim is "But the irrefutable fact remains that this one particular rule, under discussion, is universal in scope." The universe is far, far more than your "homey world." You cannot be absolutely certain that there are not billions of other intelligent species out there.

Straw man. Everyone knows that Star Trek is a fantasy. We even know who wrote it. The fact that Star Trek is a fantasy in no way precludes the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe.

Your second claim from the same post is "All societies kinda frown on this kind of killing." Not true. The ancient Romans had gladiatorial games where two men would fight to the death for the entertainment of an audience, i.e., for fun. The audience, the politicians, the whole of Roman society were all complicit in this and did not "kinda frown" on it.

You should stay away from analogies. You're really bad at them. Very bad!

First of all, all modern societies do not approve of murder for fun, sport, entertainment or pleasure.

Secondly, the fact that today nowhere in the world do such "games" exist should tell any thinking person that the "sport" is more than frowned upon in all modern societies.

Thirdly, those games were state-sponsored by obviously, very wicked and depraved rulers. It's, therefore, understandable that many Roman citizens (although I'm sure not all by an stretch of the imagination) would become as depraved as their rulers and approve of the cruelty and inhumanity of the "games". (In fact, this bit of sordid history proves the biblical doctrine of the Total Depravity of man and just how depraved we can become when moral restraints are removed.)

Fourthly, this state-sponsored depraved behavior does not mean that unsanctioned depraved behavior by its citizens was not condemned by the same rulers. The Romans were not immune to the soul-eating cancer of Hypocrisy. After all, if some private citizen went around killing people for fun, how could any ruler not think that he could be that guy's next victim? This is the kind of killer the rulers would put an A.P.B on.

Finally, I can be certain that this planet earth has intelligent life on it, in spite of strong evidence to the contrary that people like yourself often convey to the outside world. So...you can speculate wildly about all the supposed intelligent life "out there", but I'll stick with the known fact that there is intelligent life on this planet. Therefore, the truth that killing people for fun, entertainment, pleasure or sport is a behavior that is condemned in today's world is, indeed, universal in scope. It's universal in this world in which we know intelligent life exists. And this universal condemnation makes this truth absolute in nature.

Have a nice day,

P.S. But do YOU know Star-trek and such are fantasies of imaginations?

[Show Me the Wire]

Fermi's paradox!

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, you're a Greek scholar now -- you who believes virtually nothing in scripture?

I just quoted you from scripture but you don't acknowledge it. This is the problem when you base your spiritual beliefs on a book that has many versions. You don't like my NKJV and I don't like your version. But they are both accepted as God's word by the general public.

That is why words are meaningless when it comes to God. Something you will understand next lifetime with the pace you're going. (LOL)

Originally Posted by boxcar

This mindset of yours is precisely why you are not a disciple of Christ; for you do not need him to save you from your sins. You're already perfect. Congratulations.

That's right. Because sin does not really exist except in your mind.

For example, does darkness really exist? Only if light is not there. But you can't say the vice versa. Darkness can never displace light. It can only mask it such as clouds. The Light is always there. Likewise Love is the only reality that truly exists and sin (darkness) does not truly exist. You cannot have two realities.

As far as Jesus, as I said before, he is my best friend that I cannot see. But he is better to me that all my friends I can see. I know he is active in my life and loves me like no other, seen or unseen. He's been so good to me, at times he makes me cry because he loves me so much.

So don't pass judgement on my relationship to Christ. I don't think he appreciates it and that's why I don't pass judgement on you. It is not my place and you "sin" when you pass judgement on my relationship with Jesus.

So here you are preaching about "sin" and sinning as you speak. That is classic of someone who knows not what they say.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Light

That is why words are meaningless when it comes to God. Something you will understand next lifetime with the pace you're going. (LOL)

Or the lifetime after that. After all, there really is no rush...

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I just quoted you from scripture but you don't acknowledge it.

And my last to post to you was lengthy in that it addressed many points -- most of which you have not bothered to acknowledge now either -- such as the infinite superiority of Christ over your Buddha guy.

This is the problem when you base your spiritual beliefs on a book that has many versions. You don't like my NKJV and I don't like your version. But they are both accepted as God's word by the general public.

This is no problem because I don't base beliefs on any one version, including my favorite ones. My biblical hermeneutical system is far broader than any one version of scripture.

That is why words are meaningless when it comes to God. Something you will understand next lifetime with the pace you're going. (LOL)

Jesus didn't think words were meaningless. He quoted very often from the OT scriptures and said that man lives by every word that proceeds from God's mouth.

That's right. Because sin does not really exist except in your mind.

Sin is real. The Law of Sin (Rom 7:23,25)is precisely why Jesus came into the world. He came to bear the sins of his Father's people in his own body.

1 Peter 2:24
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
NASB

For example, does darkness really exist? Only if light is not there. But you can't say the vice versa. Darkness can never displace light. It can only mask it such as clouds. The Light is always there. Likewise Love is the only reality that truly exists and sin (darkness) does not truly exist. You cannot have two realities.

Of course darkness exists. Light and Darkness exist simultaneously. One can be in total darkness because he cannot see the light. Can a blind man see the light of day? He cannot but that doesn't mean the light isn't there. Have you ever been deep inside a deep cave with no light? You cannot even see your hand in front of your face due to the black blackness. but the light is bright outside the cave. Listen to how Paul describes the former spiritual condition of the Ephesians:

Eph 5:8-11
8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;
NASB

Note very carefully that Paul didn't tell the Ephesians that there were formerly "in" the darkness -- but they were darkness itself.

All born again Christians have been delivered from the devil's kingdom of darkness:

Col 1:13
13 For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
NASB

The Prince of Darkness has blinded the minds of all unbelievers so that they cannot see the light.

2 Cor 4:3-4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
NASB

You see...the light is there but unbelievers have been blinded to it by the Evil One, so that they cannot "see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ..."

So you ask, "Well then how can anyone be saved? How can anyone be saved to see the light and to come to it?" As I stated in my last post, Salvation is entirely of God. God is the one who saves by his mighty power. His power alone breaks the Law of Sin and Death! The passage above continues on to say:

2 Cor 4:5-6
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
NASB

Paul is making an analogy here between the Creation account and God's decree of light to shine in a dark world in the beginning, and God, who himself is Light, sovereignly choosing to shine in the dark hearts of his people "to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."

As far as Jesus, as I said before, he is my best friend that I cannot see. But he is better to me that all my friends I can see. I know he is active in my life and loves me like no other, seen or unseen. He's been so good to me, at times he makes me cry because he loves me so much.

So don't pass judgement on my relationship to Christ. I don't think he appreciates it and that's why I don't pass judgement on you. It is not my place and you "sin" when you pass judgement on my relationship with Jesus.[/quote]

I do not pass judgment on you; for your own words condemn you. You just stated above that you don't need a savior. Also, the Word of God stands in judgment of you now and at the end of the age for all people.

The Word of God says:

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."
NASB

You see how you have condemned yourself -- counted yourself unworthy of God's great salvation? You don't need saving. You don't believe you must be saved.

Neither do you believe that you need to repent of your sins because sin is not a reality to you. But scripture says:

Luke 13:3
3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
NASB

]So here you are preaching about "sin" and sinning as you speak. That is classic of someone who knows not what they say.

John 12:48
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
NASB

I do know what Jesus said. You receive the sayings of Buddha long before the sayings of Christ. You have no fear of Him who can cast body and soul into hell -- per Jesus!

Luke 12:5
5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
NASB

Do you know that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus Christ by the Father (Mat 28:18)? Do you know who the Judge will be on the last day when judgment is passed on the righteous and the wicked? When your "best friend" repeats himself, you should pay special attention.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So, you want to boast of Buddha and his "500 lifetimes"? Fine! I will boast of Jesus Christ and his one lifetime that consisted of but 3-1/2 years of public ministry that it took for him to defeat the devil, this world, sin and death. Death will be defeated at the Second Coming, since he personally defeated the tomb, already, on the third day. Jesus Christ is the First Fruits of the Saints' resurrection!

I'm far more impressed with Jesus Christ the Son of God and all his accomplishments on behalf of God's people than I am with your bud Buddha. Seems to me that Big Bud was a wee bit slow on the uptake.

Where have you seen Light "boasting" about Buddha? Didn't you already see him affirming his deep friendship with Jesus? Have you ever see Light call BUDDHA his "best friend"?

Must the person who worships Jesus necessarily turn his back on the teachings of the Buddha?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Where have you seen Light "boasting" about Buddha? Didn't you already see him affirming his deep friendship with Jesus? Have you ever see Light call BUDDHA his "best friend"?

Must the person who worships Jesus necessarily turn his back on the teachings of the Buddha?

He constantly boasts about Buddhism. Light believes the "tenets" of Buddhism far more than anything he believes in Christianity, the doctrines of the bible or believes his "best friend's" own words. Light's "best friend" exalted God's Word, while Light has consistently been dismissive of God's Word, telling us that words about God are essentially meaningless.

In short, Light speaks flowery words about some relationship he thinks he has with Jesus, yet believes nary a word his "best friend" has ever spoken. I find a huge disconnect there -- cognitive dissonance.

As far as the "teachings of the Buddha" go -- those teachings are less than nothing compared to Jesus' teachings. Jesus Christ, the eternal Creator and Sustainer of the universe, the Savior of the World, the Redeemer of sinners, the Forgiver of sins, The King of kings and Lord of lords, The Alpha and the Omega, The very Wisdom of God, The One in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, The Son of God -- the very God of God, the Sinless Lamb of God, The Righteous Judge of all Heaven and Earth, The Creator of the New Heavens and New Earth, The One who Overcame the World, the Victorious Conqueror of the devil, sin and death -- and yet somehow despite all this and much, much more, Light thinks Jesus is a Way -- he's a way to God.

Buddha and Jesus, heh? As Jesus once said:

Matt 6:24
24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other....
NASB

This principle applies to anything or anyone that would divide loyalty. One must give up all to follow Jesus. Jesus doesn't want any half-baked, lukewarm, half-hearted, fence-straddling followers. You're either all in or you're not. Light is very obviously not.

Light is like the Pharisees of Jesus' day who paid great lip service to God but whose heart was far removed from him.

Matt 15:8
8 'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
NASB

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

He constantly boasts about Buddhism. Light believes the "tenets" of Buddhism far more than anything he believes in Christianity, the doctrines of the bible or believes his "best friend's" own words. Light's "best friend" exalted God's Word, while Light has consistently been dismissive of God's Word, telling us that words about God are essentially meaningless.

In short, Light speaks flowery words about some relationship he thinks he has with Jesus, yet believes nary a word his "best friend" has ever spoken. I find a huge disconnect there -- cognitive dissonance.

As far as the "teachings of the Buddha" go -- those teachings are less than nothing compared to Jesus' teachings. Jesus Christ, the eternal Creator and Sustainer of the universe, the Savior of the World, the Redeemer of sinners, the Forgiver of sins, The King of kings and Lord of lords, The Alpha and the Omega, The very Wisdom of God, The One in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, The Son of God -- the very God of God, the Sinless Lamb of God, The Righteous Judge of all Heaven and Earth, The Creator of the New Heavens and New Earth, The One who Overcame the World, the Victorious Conqueror of the devil, sin and death -- and yet somehow despite all this and much, much more, Light thinks Jesus is a Way -- he's a way to God.

Buddha and Jesus, heh? As Jesus once said:

Matt 6:24
24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other....
NASB

This principle applies to anything or anyone that would divide loyalty. One must give up all to follow Jesus. Jesus doesn't want any half-baked, lukewarm, half-hearted, fence-straddling followers. You're either all in or you're not. Light is very obviously not.

Light is like the Pharisees of Jesus' day who paid great lip service to God but whose heart was far removed from him.

Matt 15:8
8 'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
NASB

I ask the question...even though I know full-well what the reply will be. I must be a glutton for punishment.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You should stay away from analogies. You're really bad at them. Very bad!

Ad hominem argument! Address the argument, not the person making it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

First of all, all modern societies do not approve of murder for fun, sport, entertainment or pleasure.

You claimed that your "truth" was/is "universal." To be universal it must be true throughout time as well as space.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Secondly, the fact that today nowhere in the world do such "games" exist should tell any thinking person that the "sport" is more than frowned upon in all modern societies.

Thirdly, those games were state-sponsored by obviously, very wicked and depraved rulers.

They were not state sponsored but were financed by the upper class to placate the mob.

Originally Posted by boxcar

It's, therefore, understandable that many Roman citizens (although I'm sure not all by an stretch of the imagination) would become as depraved as their rulers and approve of the cruelty and inhumanity of the "games". (In fact, this bit of sordid history proves the biblical doctrine of the Total Depravity of man and just how depraved we can become when moral restraints are removed.)

Violation of the Law of Non-contradiction! A society of "Total Depraved" citizens "frowns upon" organized murder?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Fourthly, this state-sponsored depraved behavior does not mean that unsanctioned depraved behavior by its citizens was not condemned by the same rulers. The Romans were not immune to the soul-eating cancer of Hypocrisy. After all, if some private citizen went around killing people for fun, how could any ruler not think that he could be that guy's next victim? This is the kind of killer the rulers would put an A.P.B on.

Special Pleading! One form of depravity is sanctioned, another is not.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Finally, I can be certain that this planet earth has intelligent life on it, in spite of strong evidence to the contrary that people like yourself often convey to the outside world. So...you can speculate wildly about all the supposed intelligent life "out there", but I'll stick with the known fact that there is intelligent life on this planet. Therefore, the truth that killing people for fun, entertainment, pleasure or sport is a behavior that is condemned in today's world is, indeed, universal in scope. It's universal in this world in which we know intelligent life exists. And this universal condemnation makes this truth absolute in nature.

But you do not know with absolute certainty that is is no intelligent life "out there." Ergo, your knowledge is not absolute.

Originally Posted by boxcar

P.S. But do YOU know Star-trek and such are fantasies of imaginations?

Not with absolute certainty.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Ad hominem argument! Address the argument, not the person making it.

I did address it. Your analogy sucks raw eggs.

You claimed that your "truth" was/is "universal." To be universal it must be true throughout time as well as space.

Nonsense! Enough with your foolishness! Look up the definition of "universal". (And don't ignore any of them). Universal means throughout this world -- "embracing a major part or or the greatest portion of MANKIND".

They were not state sponsored but were financed by the upper class to placate the mob.

They were state-sponsored. The games had the blessings of all the Caesars, and could not have taken place without official approval of Rome.

History has shown that governments can be very evil. This does not change the fact that evil is always evil, no matter who does it, no matter if it is sanctioned or not by any state. Likewise, good is always good no matter who approves of it or doesn't.

Violation of the Law of Non-contradiction! A society of "Total Depraved" citizens "frowns upon" organized murder?

But not all the citizens were depraved. No violation.

Special Pleading! One form of depravity is sanctioned, another is not.

Not all governments are created equal. Some are more virtuous than others; others are lot more depraved than others.

But you do not know with absolute certainty that is is no intelligent life "out there." Ergo, your knowledge is not absolute.

Right! And only an idiot would base an argument on what he doesn't know. Smart people base their arguments on what they do know. Therefore, my knowledge is absolute based on what I do know. I mean there could be dry water on planet Xyekaouklereloiua. But I'm not going to argue on the basis of what could be -- on the basis of what I don't know for certain.

Not with absolute certainty.

Well, there you go. This explains your love for the religion of Scientism. You and many others cannot discern between reality and science fiction. And I'm absolutely sure of that.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I ask the question...even though I know full-well what the reply will be. I must be a glutton for punishment.

You must be. The Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword, and can inflict great internal, invisible wounds to its enemies.