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Old 07-17-2011, 09:43 AM   #16
Tom
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Is is Jonileu?
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Windoor,

On a related note, after about 20 years of inactivity, I am back to doing some martial arts. Considering my advanced age (60) and physical condition, I have decided to change my direction to a very soft style - Wing Chun. One of the principles of that art is known as Empty Your Cup. The idea is that you cannot put more stuff into a cup that is already full.


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We are of an age (59) and I have learned to take the trash out from time to time. The times and new knowledge can certainly change things. Letting go of some long held beliefs can be very difficult at times. Those who can adapt will always prosper.


Hmmm, sounds a bit like Spock. I like it

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Old 07-17-2011, 03:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Is is Jonileu?
Grow Up Tom, how could you even ask this


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Old 07-17-2011, 03:46 PM   #19
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Grow Up Tom, how could you even ask this


patrick
Because Tom's a funny guy...or haven't you heard?
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:03 PM   #20
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Because Tom's a funny guy...or haven't you heard?
Okay My Bad, but I take my Mentoring seriously, and am very thankful for all the help I have gotten, to me it was not something to poke fun at...sorry.


We all know of the Jonielu incident, and I would like to keep it behind me, we can move forward, please.

Patrick


PS: Boy it seems I hi-jacked this thread, as for mentoring and group capping, to me it is a great learning tool and can definitely help better your game tremendously , and my belief is everyone should have someone to help them along, just my thoughts, sorry for the Hi-Jack

Last edited by pktruckdriver; 07-17-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:29 PM   #21
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PK

I don't think you hi-jacked the thread. It just naturally took a change in direction.

I would stress, however, that mentoring on a one-to-one basis is very difficult; too much time commitment. That is why I decided to go towards a group approach. If done right, I think I can reach more of our users that way.

Part of our upcoming plan includes "open call-in times," where people will be able to reach me for a short chat. (I am actually working on changing the way I communicate - I have to learn how to have truly short conversations - a skill I have not heretofore learned. <G>


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Old 07-17-2011, 04:49 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by pktruckdriver
Okay My Bad, but I take my Mentoring seriously, and am very thankful for all the help I have gotten, to me it was not something to poke fun at...sorry.


We all know of the Jonielu incident, and I would like to keep it behind me, we can move forward, please.
He wasn't poking fun at you...he was poking fun at Jonielu
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:47 AM   #23
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Victory?

I thought I would resurrect this thread to update our progress a little. We are still working together as a cooperative group with mentoring and guidance from Dave. We have made many discoveries that I never would have made on my own. Things I never would have discovered without the other three guys in my group, and certainly things I would have never discovered without the input from Dave.

This post is titled, "Victory?" That's because I'm not sure if I'm victorious or not. I need many more races in my study before I can proclaim victory. Before I can claim to have an approach that is profitable over a long term. But so far, so good. The contender selection process is unique in MY experience, but the key to profitability is the factors I use to choose the contenders to bet in the end. I can't bet them all and in the end I must make a choice. That is where more study is needed to ensure I have been making the right choices based on these factors, or whether I've been lucky for hundreds and hundreds of races. Which as we know is possible.

Now here's where I have to make a little bit of a confession. The contender selection idea was not mine. It didn't come from the four guys in our group either. The idea actually came from Dave. He gave it to our group to run with and see what we could do with it.

Not only this idea, but Dave has been working on something new, part of which he has shared with us. I'm not suggesting that if you get involved with Dave and one of his groups that he will share all of his breakthroughs with you, but he just might steer you into making a breakthrough of your own. Like I must say he did with me.

If you are currently an HSH user, you really could be taking advantage of an opportunity like this. Not only of working with like-minded individuals toward that common goal ($), but also taking advantage of Dave's input for free.

FREE, right Dave?......... Dave?
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by windoor
I have also found that the more a person already knows about handicapping, the harder it is to teach them anything. Mostly they just want a good argument. They are stuck in the same old belief system, even when the balance sheet says it loses money over time.
I've also had the experience of taking individuals to my office, and revealing some of the better methods (class handicapping.) They watch me bet a couple of 10-1 shots and win. I leave the track with 3 grand. They leave the track without their wallet. I do believe some people will lose because it's the thing the do.

I've collaborated on some bets. But usually my partner is a pick 5 player, who plays a different game than I do. I've handed him $2,500 before, and wouldn't think twice. He's got as many years gambling that I do.

Yeah, it's a good thing to have companionship. But the people need to bring something to the boat. You can't baby sit them. If they want to throw away their wallet. There is nothing your going to do except buy them hot dogs and beer.
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:52 PM   #25
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Absolutely Pondman!

If your goal is to 'leech' off the others in the group, expect to not stay in the group. If you don't contribute you will get cut out (as in any group in any walk of life)

But if you can find the right group (thanks to Dave who formed our group I have - with Helles and 2 others) who share similar GOALS but have DIFFERENT/COMPLIMENTARY skills then, with a bit of luck that personalities click, you really can see how the power of the group pushes you way, way beyond where you'd be on your own.

In our case, not only has the handicapping/wagering strategy been pushed much faster than I could have imagined, it has helped avoid a number of blind alleys. And we have had more than a few laughs along the way.

Also not a bad way to make friends either.

One thing to note - you do NOT need to comingle funds in the group. Some folks might think that that is what these groups are. They could be I guess, but by no means is that the going in proposition.

Finally - are we winning? Can't say we are yet though recent weeks look promising so we might be now (need longer time period to prove it out). But have definitely seen improvement from when we started.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:21 PM   #26
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I always sit with pretty much the same group at the track. In our little corner we have a guy who is great at body language handicapping. Another who is big on trainer stats. I am more of speed figure-trainer intnet guy. A couple others are good at certain tracks. We all have absorbed information from each other over the 20+ years for the greater good without comingling funds unless we chase a pick-6. I am sure I have learned as much as I have been taught at the same time.

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Old 09-27-2011, 11:55 PM   #27
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Kid,

Your experience is what most people look for at the races: guys to hang out with, especially if they have complimentary skills.


What we are trying to accomplish is a little different. We do not collaborate on the PICKS. We collaborate on the RESEARCH TO IMPROVE OUR GAME.

While members of a group MIGHT hang together during the races, that is not our purpose. The target is to improve the results of each individual by working on a research project together; to effectively, improve our individual play.

The guys in this particular group, while doing many things in common, actually play quite differently. They have each taken their own path, converging periodically on some potential new improvement.

These guys are on the cutting-edge of our technology, while still remaining their own individuality. They do spend hours each week in communication via Skype - almost all text chat - sharing picks, what is working, what isn't, and taking/making suggestions.

I encourage everyone who is not yet where they want to be to find someone to match up with to share the effort of the quest.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Last edited by Dave Schwartz; 09-27-2011 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:18 AM   #28
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I'm starting my quest as a handicapper and would really enjoy partnering up with a couple of folks to keep in touch on a casual basis through Skype. I don't have the luxury of going to the track and talking to people as the nearest track (which is also over for the season) is about an hour away, but I do value the sanity check and various perspectives people can provide.

I'm a crazed analyst, and I'm currently building my database which will probably take at least 3 more months to complete (lots of data). I'd value talking to anyone that has gone through setting up their own database and/or someone who would value an analytical perspective in their own handicapping strategy. I like to have a wide range of perspectives.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:48 AM   #29
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I would invite you to search for me on Skype and I will hook you in with a bunch of other handicappers.

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Dave Schwartz
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:12 PM   #30
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Update: 2nd group has really taken off

The second HSH group is beginning to find itself.

There are about 6 or 7 core members who are really at full steam. It is very impressive to watch.

This is working so well that I am going to begin a 3rd group in a couple more weeks. I have asked some of the new members to post their experiences here, so hopefully this will give people an idea of how well a true MasterMind group can work.

I would entertain the idea of a non-HSH group - but there would have to be a cost of admission. I wonder how many would be interested?


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Dave Schwartz
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