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Old 11-17-2012, 10:33 PM   #16
thespaah
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Originally Posted by angeleyes55
Most of the higher ups responsible for making important decisions probably never make a bet and are clueless. In their eyes people who bet horses are all stupid degenerate gamblers who wouldn't notice the difference. If they get shut out one race they will just bet another one until they go home empty.....
I still do not understand why it is some people just find it impossible to "plan ahead"..just get your bets in on time.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by edmond1
5 seconds gives plenty of time for a person betting live at the track to modify/cancel bets if a horse acts up unfavorably at the gate or if a standardbred goes off stride steps before the start. When delay was only 2 seconds before (C-Band signal) the advantage wasn't as dramatic. Since the change to DN I have witnessed endless number of frustrated people getting shut out. Many I know now don't even bother to try to bet anymore if horses are loading into the gate. I once sat near a couple of young people new to the game that smashed a monitor in frustration after getting shut out and quickly exited to the slots before commenting on how stupid people are to be subjected to this unnecessary delay.....
Ok...Why do you insist that there is some kind of "advantage"..Why is it so impossible to simply adjust your "brain clock" 3-4 seconds ahead and act accordingly?
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by thespaah
That does not appear to be a question. It appears you are convinced that a 3-4 second delay is the cause of millions of dollars in lost handle.
I'd like to know how it is you reached this conclusion. Clearly professional bettors are some pretty smart people. Do you not believe they have figured out a work around?
Professional bettor ???? For every so called professional bettor there must be a 1000 who haven't figured it out yet . Do you not agree that betting increases exponentially as post time approaches ? I wouldn't be surprised that 3 -5 % of possible handle is lost because of this increased delay. This doesn't include the handle lost because of people like myself that refrains from betting simulcast tracks at a disadvantage........
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:50 PM   #19
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They already have millions in handle decline directly contributed to this in just a few months. An upgrade from a service company should not be a severe detriment to your industry. Who ever heard of a technology upgrade where you get much slower service in this day and age. It is ridiculous.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by thespaah
Ok...Why do you insist that there is some kind of "advantage"..Why is it so impossible to simply adjust your "brain clock" 3-4 seconds ahead and act accordingly?
Do you not agree that 3 to 4 seconds is enough time to adjust/cancel your bet if a horse(s) acts up at the gate or if a standardbred breaks yards before the start ?? Do you understand that this can not be done if you are seeing these events 5 seconds later than the guy at the track ?? If you are a multi- race bettor and/or does not care about body language I can understand your point. But if you rely on odds and body language every second counts - 5 is just too much for me ....

Not sure if you attend a simulcast betting location. If you do, you will notice that a great number of people bet on several tracks at a time and tend to bet seconds before post time especially when 2 or 3 tracks are loading at the same time. Naturally frustration sets in when they inevitably get shut out frequently.....I witness this all the time.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by baconswitchfarm
They already have millions in handle decline directly contributed to this in just a few months. An upgrade from a service company should not be a severe detriment to your industry. Who ever heard of a technology upgrade where you get much slower service in this day and age. It is ridiculous.
Well said. Do you know that Betfair offers internet feeds approx. 1 second from real time on British Racing ? This is remarkable. The best internet feed from Roberts that I have seen so far is approx. 7-8 seconds from real time. RIDICULOUS !!!!!!! Technology exists to provide a much better service instead they rather paralyze even further an already crippled industry...I wonder if being a monopoly ..... ???
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:44 AM   #22
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None of you are going to convince me that it is imperative to make wagers at the last possible second on EVERY race one bets.
Look, you guys know your wagering patterns. I know how the video technology works.
I am telling you, the only way there would be no( or slight) delay is if the video was from a closed feed from an over the air system then loaded onto a fiber optic subscriber line, sort of like a super fast T-1 line( they do exist) to each wagering site. The cost to do this would be astronomical.
Satellite technology is the best that can be offered to keep the cost affordable.
The only other way I can see this dilemma being corrected is to close wagering when the first horse is loaded.
Are tracks, ADW's and OTB's going to give up those 1.5 to 2 mins of wagering? Heck no....I guess you'll all have to deal with what we have now.
Or just bet 5 seconds earlier. Your choice.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:52 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by edmond1
Do you not agree that 3 to 4 seconds is enough time to adjust/cancel your bet if a horse(s) acts up at the gate or if a standardbred breaks yards before the start ?? Do you understand that this can not be done if you are seeing these events 5 seconds later than the guy at the track ?? If you are a multi- race bettor and/or does not care about body language I can understand your point. But if you rely on odds and body language every second counts - 5 is just too much for me ....

Not sure if you attend a simulcast betting location. If you do, you will notice that a great number of people bet on several tracks at a time and tend to bet seconds before post time especially when 2 or 3 tracks are loading at the same time. Naturally frustration sets in when they inevitably get shut out frequently.....I witness this all the time.
If you are sitting at your home computer or at your laptop at a wagering site( if it's permitted) yeah, you can cancel or change your wager in the last couple of seconds. If one is at a simulcast facility or on track, I hardly see the possibility that anyone can dart back to a teller window or to an automated machine and have time to make those changes.
BTW, this satellite delay has been in existence for quite some time. I will say it was less when tracks used to old C-Band systems because the signal had to make one less trip into space and back than it does now.
Now it gets bounced at least twice..
Goes from track to uplink. Then it's downlinked back to Dish's uplink center then down one more time to the customer..I think that's how it works. I will have to do some digging to make sure this is accurate..All I know for sure is there is a lot of space to cover before the signal gets to where the customer can use it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:40 AM   #24
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The idea that professional bettors---people with a low margin of error, who bets millions of dollars a year---are jockeying for position at a mutuel window and then getting mad because they can't cancel a bet with three seconds to post instead of one second is totally absurd. If anyone knows a professional who is not only betting live at the track without a rebate but is relying on cancelling or getting in bets in one second instead of three and getting shut out, have him post here. Then I'll believe it's costing racetracks millions of dollars in handle.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
The way I read this is the on line version of RTN is available for $25 per month. However, the customer must be a RTN tv version subscriber.
One can subscribe to the tv version even if they don't want the satellite system. Basically the on line version is $75 per month of one wishes the live feeds on their computer.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Both the Online Package and the Mobile Package are priced at $25. Adding the On Demand Package at $15 per month would mean no TV subscription needed, for a total of $40.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:23 PM   #26
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Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Both the Online Package and the Mobile Package are priced at $25. Adding the On Demand Package at $15 per month would mean no TV subscription needed, for a total of $40.
If it's $40 I am getting it. Then it's worth it. If I have to buy the tv and online packages for a total of $75, it's too much for me. That is half the total of my pay tv subscription.
Perhaps someone who cannot for whatever reason satellite reception from the 118.7 orbital slot( from where RTN comes) inquires of RTN about the on line subscription, they can post the info in this thread.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by thespaah
If it's $40 I am getting it. Then it's worth it. If I have to buy the tv and online packages for a total of $75, it's too much for me. That is half the total of my pay tv subscription.
Perhaps someone who cannot for whatever reason satellite reception from the 118.7 orbital slot( from where RTN comes) inquires of RTN about the on line subscription, they can post the info in this thread.
I cannot get a satellite dish due to line of sight issues. I wrote them and asked about my options (I think I know the answer as outlined in my original post in the topic) and will report back when I hear something.

Jim

Last edited by JimG; 11-21-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:57 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by castaway01
The idea that professional bettors---people with a low margin of error, who bets millions of dollars a year---are jockeying for position at a mutuel window and then getting mad because they can't cancel a bet with three seconds to post instead of one second is totally absurd. If anyone knows a professional who is not only betting live at the track without a rebate but is relying on cancelling or getting in bets in one second instead of three and getting shut out, have him post here. Then I'll believe it's costing racetracks millions of dollars in handle.
A group of us(with the use of laptops) used to bet over $3 million a year (includes rebate shops and betting exchanges) when C-Band was used (3 seconds faster than now). Since last second odds, body language etc. is critical in our betting strategies we found that the loss of 3 seconds greatly affected our chance to stay ahead of the game. Now we only average approx. $1 million a year - mostly on live racing.

I talked to someone this week at Dover Down's racebook that has noticed a significant decline in handle since Roberts Comm. discontinued their use of C-Band in September and is very concerned.

Since I am at the track almost everyday I constantly witness frustrated bettors getting shut out all the time.

If it doesn't matter why would Betfair offer feeds approx. 1 second delayed on British Racing. Important for INPLAY yes but they also understand that time is money - even 1 second. Over the long run the seconds add up...They just don't get it here - just clueless.

How can anyone argue that handle will not be affected if 3 seconds of betting time gets chopped off at a crucial time when betting increases exponentially to post time ??????????

Maybe you guys work for Roberts Comm. ?? Because that's the same attitude they had when I spoke to them. Or maybe what Angeleyes says above is true ??
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:36 PM   #29
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rtn website

$25 Per Month

" starts nov26th"
  • Live Video Streaming Of Simulcast Feeds (Full Cards, Unedited, Uninterrupted)
  • Exact Same Simulcast Feeds As In Racetracks And Simulcast Outlets
  • Every Race From Every Simulcast Every Day
  • Every North American and Select International Track Simulcasts Available (Largest Simulcast Menu Anywhere- Commercial Or Residential)
  • Coverage Includes Thoroughbred, Harness, Quarter Horse Racing, Jai- Alai Games, Major Horse Sales, Special Industry Events, Racing Related Programming
  • Up To 80 Simultaneous Channels (Varies Due To Track Racing Schedules)
  • Race Replays On Demand (Full Archive Library Of All Simulcast Races)(Look Up By Track, Date, Horse)
  • Equibase Data (Entries, Scratches, Jockey/Driver Changes, Results)
  • Designed For PCs
  • A Must Have For Bettors, Breeders, Owners, Trainers, Jockeys, Industry Employees
  • TV Package Subscription Required
  • Non-TV Package Subscribers Can Buy The "On Demand Package" (Race Replays Only- Online And Mobile Included-$15 Per Month)
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:46 PM   #30
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I cannot get a satellite dish due to line of sight issues. I wrote them and asked about my options (I think I know the answer as outlined in my original post in the topic) and will report back when I hear something.

Jim
Well, I heard back and was told:

"We are currently working on a package for online use only, meaning you will not need to order the television package as well. This should be implemented early next week. I will email you again to let you know for sure."

I'll let you guys know when I hear more.

Jim
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