Anyone know how recent Zenyatta foes Rinterval and Zardana did today?

[cj]

Originally Posted by gm10

I think it is less than six months ago that you said that you don't look at how horses do after the race to judge their performance. I guess it doesn't matter in the case of RA anyway because she broke the hearts of her opponents who could therefore no longer win races.

Anyway, in the case of Zenyatta I think there is no real key. Switch is a quality filly, and running her down wasn't easy. She has a chance in the FM Sprint. St Trinians is quality and will show it next year. Just Jenda won a G2 not so long ago. And of course there is also the unforgettable Zardana.

Anyway, I maintain that the concept of key races doesn't apply here. The only two who gave her a race were St Trinians and Switch. None of the two have come back yet.

I didn't say I would use that in isolation. In the case of the Woodward, for example, those horses were running well coming into the Woodward and ran well that day. Obviously, for whatever reason, the horses weren't the same after. If there was no history of good races before that day, I would look skeptically at the race.

I would hardly say St. T and Switch are the only horses to give her a race this year, but to each his own.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by jonnielu

Apparently, somewhat off the mark. Look, this year's BC is going to be real race horses, going in real horse races, on real dirt. Surely, that will make all of the difference in the world.

Sure, many in the crowd will bet Zenyatta, just because she has managed to win 19 horse races in a row. But, these are the great unwashed, what do they know about handicapping a horse race? Hell, these people refuse to recognize how slow Zenyatta is, and that it is only the artificial surface that has been enabling her to win.

Sure, this is a large crowd of unwashed, and most of them will step up to wager their $2, but I doubt that will even show up in the pool against the kind of major money that the "great handicapper" and his legions of followers will be wagering on the fastest horse.

All serious horseplayers know that the fastest horse always wins on real dirt. And, some of the most real dirt in the entire world is found right there in Louisville, KY. Hell, back in '73, two horses broke the 10f record in the same race. How did they do that? The realest of real dirt, that's how.

Sure, we all know that poly has propelled Zenyatta to 17 of her 19 wins, but she is just one horse. Look at how many horses have been propelled to their greatest performance by Churchill Downs real dirt.

Certainly, this is one huge factor that the un-sophisticated Zenyatta fan is completely unaware of. But, the "great handicapper" has been onto this cutting edge knowledge for 40 years. And, he's been telling people about it the whole time. Just look at the record, here is a man that knows about real race horses running 10f on real dirt at Churchill Downs.

Yeah, the morning line guy might make Zenyatta the favorite because of the same uninformed sentimentality, but everybody knows what idiots those guys are when it comes to making a "proper" morning line. Surely, the uncalculable swarms of serious handicappers will override that as they pound the fastest horse down to 6/5.

Keep in mind that the "whales" will likely be right there too, because they are also "serious handicappers".

Then, it is most likely that the majority of Zenyatta zealots will back down to show, especially since the "real dirt" thing has been getting explained to them for years now.

jdl

Classic cruel to standouts - ESPN


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=5674599

Excerpt:

History says it's rather rare to have a standout Breeders' Cup Classic favorite, but history has not met many mares like Zenyatta. Expect horseplayers to be all-in as Zenyatta aims for her 20th straight win without defeat in her Nov. 6 career finale.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by andymays

Santa Anita Starts Surface Replacement

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ce-replacement

Regarding that, as a service to our friends who love the synthetic tracks (especially SA's Pro-Ride), here's a photo from the Bloodhorse of the process and some music to listen to while viewing it.



[YT="Sorry seems to be the hardest word"]SY0z-BKhefY[/YT]

[gm10]

Originally Posted by cj

I didn't say I would use that in isolation. In the case of the Woodward, for example, those horses were running well coming into the Woodward and ran well that day. Obviously, for whatever reason, the horses weren't the same after. If there was no history of good races before that day, I would look skeptically at the race.

I would hardly say St. T and Switch are the only horses to give her a race this year, but to each his own.

Who else did? I think Rinterval could have done that stretch 100 times over and still not have won. Who do you have in mind if not Rinterval?

[gm10]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Regarding that, as a service to our friends who love the synthetic tracks (especially SA's Pro-Ride), here's a photo from the Bloodhorse of the process and some music to listen to while viewing it.



[YT="Sorry seems to be the hardest word"]SY0z-BKhefY[/YT]

I think it's a dumb decision. I am not going to be as childish as some as not bet it because I don't like the surface, but I certainly have low hopes for it. It's a step back for California racing. The last few years will be seen as a good time for Californian horses imo - at least when it comes to producing sound, versatile horses who could dominate the national divisions as well the local scene. Just my opinion.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by gm10

I think it's a dumb decision. I am not going to be as childish as some as not bet it because I don't like the surface, but I certainly have low hopes for it. It's a step back for California racing. The last few years will be seen as a good time for Californian horses imo - at least when it comes to producing sound, versatile horses who could dominate the national divisions as well the local scene. Just my opinion.

Pro Ride Rejected!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I mean look at all the mocking threads and posts revolving around Zenyatta, it far outweighs any accolades around here. It's beyond an obsession with several folks here.

How many mocking threads would you say have been created in the last 30 days?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by gm10

If Zenyatta wins, nobody will be calling Lucky or Blame 'great horses' either.

Is that some sort of requirement?

I never recall writing that Zenyatta must beat some "great horses" in order to be worthy of the accolades she currently generates.

Just meet and beat the best out there at the moment. She did it last year, but the BC Classic over synthetics still left question marks for me. Much like it would a European, if one of their top runners won a big race over a surface other than turf.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Is that some sort of requirement?

I never recall writing that Zenyatta must beat some "great horses" in order to be worthy of the accolades she currently generates.

Just meet and beat the best out there at the moment. She did it last year, but the BC Classic over synthetics still left question marks for me. Much like it would a European, if one of their top runners won a big race over a surface other than turf.

Whether it's a requirement or not is not the point. I'm just highlighting the fact that whatever she beats will never be good enough for some. For example you don't think that beating subsequent group 1 winners Twice Over, Gio Ponti, Richard's Kid, Girolamo, Awesome Gem, Rip Van Winkle is that meaningful because of the surface. I'd say that even bats are less blind than that, but that is only a suspicion.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by gm10

Whether it's a requirement or not is not the point. I'm just highlighting the fact that whatever she beats will never be good enough for some. For example you don't think that beating subsequent group 1 winners Twice Over, Gio Ponti, Richard's Kid, Girolamo, Awesome Gem, Rip Van Winkle is that meaningful because of the surface. I'd say that even bats are less blind than that, but that is only a suspicion.

Notice how I answered you with no hint of insult or sarcasm or whatever, and you come back at me with this junk about bats?

Twice Over - Turf Horse
Gio Ponti - Turf Horse

Girolamo (25-1 and last), Awesome Gem (52-1 and seventh) and Rip Van Winkle (10th) didn't even lift a hoof in the 2009 BC Classic and really aren't worth mentioning. Someone with little knowledge might come away with the thought that Zenyatta was somehow responsible for their poor showing.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Notice how I answered you with no hint of insult or sarcasm or whatever, and you come back at me with this junk about bats?

Twice Over - Turf Horse
Gio Ponti - Turf Horse

Girolamo (25-1 and last), Awesome Gem (52-1 and seventh) and Rip Van Winkle (10th) didn't even lift a hoof in the 2009 BC Classic and really aren't worth mentioning. Someone with little knowledge might come away with the thought that Zenyatta was somehow responsible for their poor showing.

No, I say that this was a very deep group 1 race that was won by an exceptional horse. There weren't any excuses imo, apart from Girolamo who clearly isn't a classic distance horse. They all had a fair chance, including the high class grinder Summer Bird who ran a very similar race to all his others, they all lost to the champ. I say credit where credit is due. It was simply awesome. It was great.

[cj]

Originally Posted by gm10

No, I say that this was a very deep group 1 race that was won by an exceptional horse. There weren't any excuses imo, apart from Girolamo who clearly isn't a classic distance horse. They all had a fair chance, including the high class grinder Summer Bird who ran a very similar race to all his others, they all lost to the champ. I say credit where credit is due. It was simply awesome. It was great.

Again, pretend surface doesn't matter.

If this were true, why exactly is Gio Ponti being considered for the Classic? It is because he can greatly enhance his stud value with a placing on DIRT, just like Giant's Causeway and Sakhee. Wait, didn't he already place on "dirt" in the Classic last year? Seems breeders aren't interested in that aspect of his record. I wonder why?

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by gm10

No, I say that this was a very deep group 1 race that was won by an exceptional horse. There weren't any excuses imo, apart from Girolamo who clearly isn't a classic distance horse. They all had a fair chance, including the high class grinder Summer Bird who ran a very similar race to all his others, they all lost to the champ. I say credit where credit is due. It was simply awesome. It was great.

There weren't any excuses apart from Girolamo?

Perhaps you could watch the race again and pay particular attention to Einstein. Rip Van Winkle carried him right out of the race when that one stopped. I'd call that an excuse.

[cj]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

There weren't any excuses apart from Girolamo?

Perhaps you could watch the race again and pay particular attention to Einstein. Rip Van Winkle carried him right out of the race when that one stopped. I'd call that an excuse.

Please don't let facts get in the way of a good fairy tale.

[gm10]

Originally Posted by cj

Again, pretend surface doesn't matter.

If this were true, why exactly is Gio Ponti being considered for the Classic? It is because he can greatly enhance his stud value with a placing on DIRT, just like Giant's Causeway and Sakhee. Wait, didn't he already place on "dirt" in the Classic last year? Seems breeders aren't interested in that aspect of his record. I wonder why?

That is more than a bit speculative. I personally don't expect him in the Classic.