Minimum Wage-Seattle results

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by mostpost

....Then there is the matter that the UW study is contradicted by other studies that are better designed. That was the case with a University of California, Berkeley study released last week that found Seattle’s minimum-wage law led to higher pay for restaurant workers without costing jobs in 2015 and 2016.

So, we have one study based on what actually happened and one based on what someone thought should happen. I know which one I will rely on, but then I'm not a conservative desperate to prove my misguided theories.

Well, actually you've got one study funded by taxpayers, and one study funded by the mayor of Seattle, when he didn't like the results of the UW study. Kinda like the snowflakes blocking I-5 when Hillary lost in November, and suddenly wanting the Electoral College abolished.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/se...aponized-data/

...However, Saltsman raises a good question, pointing to a paragraph on the title page of the study that says the Berkeley report was “prepared at the request of the Mayor of Seattle.” This was odd, Saltsman noted, given that the city was already funding a series of six studies from the University of Washington on the impacts of the wage law. Why look outside the city for research when taxpayers are already funding local number crunching?

He had a theory: Those UW studies just weren’t positive enough. Saltsman pointed out that Reich is a go-to academic for proponents of a $15-an-hour minimum wage across the country. Reich is also affiliated with the Berkeley Labor Center. As the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union noted last year, the center “has done at least six … studies on the minimum wage in California municipalities, all showing that a wage increase would be beneficial.”

Bottom line - every story is propaganda, all media companies work for the someone who wants to confuse you, and when trying to solve a problem dealing with the poor - you can count on government at all levels to waste money above and beyond what benefits could be derived by just handing the money directly to the poor. After all, politics is simply a racket these days.

[chadk66]

you don't have to read studies or even be a rocket scientist to have predicted the true results of a min. wage hike to $15

[Inner Dirt]

Since when did minimum wage jobs become more than an entry level in to the field of employment? What needs to be figured out is why a higher percentage of the population is making careers out of burger flipping than they used to? 40 years ago when I was a teenager the local burger joint was staffed by students, a few senior citizens supplementing social security, and house wives working part time. No one other than the owner and manager were making a career out of working at Disco Burger.

Fast forward to when I lived in Riverside Ca 1995-2010. I grabbed my fast food at Jack in a Box and Jose's Taco's. I knew people at both places that had worked there 5-10 years. I knew a girl at the Jack in A Box who was going on 7 years still stuck on second shift because she did not have enough seniority at that location to get on days.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Since when did minimum wage jobs become more than an entry level in to the field of employment? What needs to be figured out is why a higher percentage of the population is making careers out of burger flipping than they used to? 40 years ago when I was a teenager the local burger joint was staffed by students, a few senior citizens supplementing social security, and house wives working part time. No one other than the owner and manager were making a career out of working at Disco Burger.

Fast forward to when I lived in Riverside Ca 1995-2010. I grabbed my fast food at Jack in a Box and Jose's Taco's. I knew people at both places that had worked there 5-10 years. I knew a girl at the Jack in A Box who was going on 7 years still stuck on second shift because she did not have enough seniority at that location to get on days.

This reflects the fundamental change in the U.S. economy over the last 40 years to one of contraction, and not growth, in spite of all the mainstream propaganda to the contrary. We've essentially been living on the "credit card" of more debt to fund our lifestyles. While times have been good for the top 15% or so (the salary class), the wage class has seen many of their good, "living wage" jobs get shipped overseas or replaced by automation or higher efficiency brought on by the technology boom.

Now the salary class is starting to feel the pinch, leaving the 1% or so the only class left seeing rosy times. And that's probably going to change as well. Relying on wealth redistribution programs like higher minimum wages, especially in the service sector, is about as effective as relying on a tapped out American consumer to spur the economic growth necessary to support and repay the enormous amounts of debt in the system.

Needless to say, this will not end well. Or rather, this will not transition well.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Since when did minimum wage jobs become more than an entry level in to the field of employment? What needs to be figured out is why a higher percentage of the population is making careers out of burger flipping than they used to? 40 years ago when I was a teenager the local burger joint was staffed by students, a few senior citizens supplementing social security, and house wives working part time. No one other than the owner and manager were making a career out of working at Disco Burger.

Fast forward to when I lived in Riverside Ca 1995-2010. I grabbed my fast food at Jack in a Box and Jose's Taco's. I knew people at both places that had worked there 5-10 years. I knew a girl at the Jack in A Box who was going on 7 years still stuck on second shift because she did not have enough seniority at that location to get on days.

NAFTA

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

NAFTA

Evidence?

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Evidence?

Our economy since NAFTA.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Our economy since NAFTA.

That's evidence? After NAFTA therefore because of NAFTA?

NAFTA was enacted in 1994. Unemployment in the US was around 6% at that time, and declined to about 4% until the 2001 recession caused by the dot-com bubble and made worse by the 9/11 attack.

NAFTA didn't cause that bubble, and it didn't cause the subprime mortgage crisis that caused a recession in 2007. And it didn't cause a whole bunch of jobs to move to China.

NAFTA killed a lot of jobs in the US, but it created a lot also. Any change brings winners and losers. And there is a good chance that a lot of the jobs that moved to Mexico would have moved to China if not for NAFTA.

[chadk66]

NAFTA didn't help. That's why Trump is trying to re-negotiate it or pull out of it. And he is already doing a fine job of growing the economy.

[davew]

Originally Posted by chadk66

you don't have to read studies or even be a rocket scientist to have predicted the true results of a min. wage hike to $15

just wait until Mark Zuckerburg runs for president. His campaign will probably include a basic wage for everyone - communism disguised for the nitwit stay at homes...

[Actor]

Originally Posted by MONEY

I believe that the high minimum wage pushed by the left will make more people dependent on the government, with socialism being the ultimate goal.

Obviously the capitalist system, and Reaganomics in particular, have failed the common man. Nationalization of the S&P 500 would be a good start.

capitalism.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Actor

Obviously the capitalist system, and Reaganomics in particular, have failed the common man.

Right. That's why there is no longer any interest on the part of people of the world to get into this country.

Nationalization of the S&P 500 would be a good start.

Right again. Having turned the health care industry into a shining model of economy and efficiency, the government can now set its sights on reforming private industry.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Right. That's why there is no longer any interest on the part of people of the world to get into this country.

That won't last. The U.S. is rapidly becoming a third world country as far as manufacturing is concerned. No matter what I buy it's probably made in another country. Fifty years from now U.S. citizens will be leaving so they can get better paying jobs in China.

Originally Posted by Clocker

Right again. Having turned the health care industry into a shining model of economy and efficiency, ...

The U.S. health care industry is a dismal failure as far as getting services to people goes. The "industry" is geared toward treating the wealthy and ignoring the poor. The very fact that you refer to it as an "industry" is indicative of the problem. Health care should be a basic human right, not a for-profit business.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Actor

The U.S. is rapidly becoming a third world country as far as manufacturing is concerned.

Quite the opposite. Relatively little of the value in high tech manufactured goods comes from actual assembly. Third world countries are welcome to that.

Manufacturing accounts for less than 9% of the jobs in this country. But our workers are more productive because of training, specialization, and automation. But most don't do jobs like consumer product assembly.

Why should we care that we import a lot of stuff? Consumers are much better off, and a lot of our imports actually have a lot of American content due to the non-manufacturing aspects of the products that we do here.

From Forbes:

Actually, a lot of the iPhone is already Made in the U.S.A.

A report written by three U.S. professors showed that only about "$10 or less in direct labor wages goes into an iPhone or iPad is paid to Chinese workers."

The report points out that while the Apple products - including components - are manufactured in China, the primary benefits go to the U.S. economy because Apple continues to keep most of its product design, software development, product management, marketing and other high-wage functions in the U.S., not China.

China's role is more of an assembler.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#3d6ff3b45dc9

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Actor

The U.S. health care industry is a dismal failure as far as getting services to people goes. The "industry" is geared toward treating the wealthy and ignoring the poor.

No, the industry is geared toward complying with government regulations in the most efficient way possible. It is driven top down by that, as the professionals at the front line try to provide real health care despite the rules and regulations.

A major force behind turning health care into an industry is government regulation, and ObamaCare forced a quantum leap in that process.

The old family doctor disappeared long ago as laws and regulations offered economies of scale to bigger and bigger practices.

ObamaCare took it to the next level, where only extensive networks of clinics and hospitals could remain solvent. Doctors sold out private practices to large clinics, and clinics sold out to corporate hospitals. And now insurance companies are buying the hospitals and clinics. And the profit margin in health insurance is still one of the lowest of all major industries.