Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > Handicapping Library


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 09-29-2018, 08:07 PM   #16
Buckeye
Smarty Pants
 
Buckeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Every Vote Counts
Posts: 3,160
Rep Power: 0 Buckeye is a jewel in the roughBuckeye is a jewel in the roughBuckeye is a jewel in the rough
Incidentally, Dick Mitchell knew quite a lot about Math and Formulas and even Calculus.

But the question is . . .
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-30-2018, 07:54 PM   #17
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,767
Rep Power: 16 Actor will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
As a handicapper for 35 years, my two favorite books during my formative years may have been

Modern Pace handicapping by Brohamer and

Pace makes the Race by Sartin, Pizzolla, Hambleton and Schmidt
I have a copy of Pace Makes the Race. It's by Hambleton and Schmidt. Sartin and Pizzolla don't seem to be on the title page.
__________________
Sapere aude
Actor is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-30-2018, 08:00 PM   #18
Actor
Librocubicularist
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,767
Rep Power: 16 Actor will become famous soon enough
When I was 16 my dad or my uncle had to make my bets for me. I wasn't allowed anywhere near the windows.
__________________
Sapere aude
Actor is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-30-2018, 09:03 PM   #19
thaskalos
Adventurer
 
thaskalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,431
Rep Power: 51 thaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
I have a copy of Pace Makes the Race. It's by Hambleton and Schmidt. Sartin and Pizzolla don't seem to be on the title page.
You have the large softcover version which came later. The earlier hardcover one had more pages...and included the names of Sartin and Pizzolla on the cover.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2018, 07:06 AM   #20
CheckMark
Check Mark
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Fergus,ON
Posts: 661
Rep Power: 0 CheckMark can only hope to improve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
When I was 16 my dad or my uncle had to make my bets for me. I wasn't allowed anywhere near the windows.
I secretly do my bets at a ABM. But one night the machine was not working so I went up to the teller and she was like “oh you can put your bets in here sir”
But she never acknowledged that there was a Pick 6 at penn national so I to be separate pick 3’s
CheckMark is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-01-2018, 08:23 AM   #21
bobphilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 2,119
Rep Power: 17 bobphilo will become famous soon enoughbobphilo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Actor View Post
Then get a math textbook and read it. When you get to college take a course in statistics.

It amazes me that writers of most handicapping books don't seem to know math. They take pages to explain how to do a calculation that could be expressed in a single formula. Some may be trying to dumb it down for their readers. Maybe they get paid by the word.

Ainslie's Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Racing is a must read just for the background if nothing else.

The best is Winning at the Race Track by William Quirin. You have to be able to handle the math.

Learn to program a computer. Write your own software.
Couldn't agree more. You have to learn something about statistics to understand the studies.

Quirin's Winning at the Races is the best I've read. He puts things in language any intelligent person can understand. Guess that's why he's a professor.
bobphilo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 10:25 AM   #22
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 42,178
Rep Power: 72 cj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud ofcj has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobphilo View Post
Couldn't agree more. You have to learn something about statistics to understand the studies.

Quirin's Winning at the Races is the best I've read. He puts things in language any intelligent person can understand. Guess that's why he's a professor.
I wonder how much of Quirin's stuff actually held up over larger sample sizes. They were pretty small if memory serves, obviously being limited for several reasons at the time.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 10:51 AM   #23
Tom
Registered User
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 92,021
Rep Power: 132 Tom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond reputeTom has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Shouldn't you be reading SCHOOLBOOKS at 16 years-old?
I got more out of Beyer than I did Thoreau.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 01:46 PM   #24
Light
Registered User
 
Light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,083
Rep Power: 24 Light is a jewel in the roughLight is a jewel in the roughLight is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
I got more out of Beyer than I did Thoreau.
They didn't teach about Thoreau in my HS. I did read him on my own when I was 16 but none of my classmates knew about him. They were mainly interested in sex, drugs and RR.
Light is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 01:55 PM   #25
thaskalos
Adventurer
 
thaskalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,431
Rep Power: 51 thaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj View Post
I wonder how much of Quirin's stuff actually held up over larger sample sizes. They were pretty small if memory serves, obviously being limited for several reasons at the time.
None of it. Quirin was hired to do his research by the legendary gambler "Al Fransesco"...but Fransesco rejected Quirin's findings because they didn't hold up to a more thorough scrutiny. Of course...this didn't stop Quirin from publishing the results on his own...and making a name for himself in spite of his research's questionable nature.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 02:51 PM   #26
Light
Registered User
 
Light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,083
Rep Power: 24 Light is a jewel in the roughLight is a jewel in the roughLight is a jewel in the rough
I want to point out that there is a big difference between a 16yo LEARNING about the mechanics of horse racing and BETTING on horse racing. Now would be a good time for an apprenticeship for a 16yo who is interested in betting the horses in a couple of years through learning about it. It is a great mental exercise.

When i was 10yo, I would grab my fathers WSJ and check out stocks on the NYSE. ALL my stocks I followed made a nice or huge profit. I had the skill a stockbroker could only dream about. My father wouldn't listen to my picks because I was 10yo so I stopped telling him. But what my father couldn't see was that my age didn't matter because what I lacked in maturity was taken up with a skill. As I matured and became more "educated", I lost that skill even though I am doing well in the Stock market today.

As handicappers, this is what we mean when we talk about "thinking outside the box". In other words, thinking in unconventional but potentially productive ways. I think a serious 16yo can come up with good angles at that age that he will not remember as he becomes "matured" and "educated" just as I did at 10yo.
Light is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 02:58 PM   #27
CheckMark
Check Mark
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Fergus,ON
Posts: 661
Rep Power: 0 CheckMark can only hope to improve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
I want to point out that there is a big difference between a 16yo LEARNING about the mechanics of horse racing and BETTING on horse racing. Now would be a good time for an apprenticeship for a 16yo who is interested in betting the horses in a couple of years through learning about it. It is a great mental exercise.

When i was 10yo, I would grab my fathers WSJ and check out stocks on the NYSE. ALL my stocks I followed made a nice or huge profit. I had the skill a stockbroker could only dream about. My father wouldn't listen to my picks because I was 10yo so I stopped telling him. But what my father couldn't see was that my age didn't matter because what I lacked in maturity was taken up with a skill. As I matured and became more "educated", I lost that skill even though I am doing well in the Stock market today.

As handicappers, this is what we mean when we talk about "thinking outside the box". In other words, thinking in unconventional but potentially productive ways. I think a serious 16yo can come up with good angles at that age that he will not remember as he becomes "matured" and "educated" just as I did at 10yo.
Light, I learn by writing things down in Hilroy notebooks and I mean EVERYTHING! From my trips to the track, to mentors teaching me the ways of their handicapping, to stats about my selections. And I can remember ANYTHING!
CheckMark is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 03:02 PM   #28
thaskalos
Adventurer
 
thaskalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,431
Rep Power: 51 thaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant futurethaskalos has a brilliant future
The unfortunate side of it is that horse-handicapping has an ADDICTIVE nature...which can become a significant barrier to a young person's conventional educational pursuits. Beyer sacrificed a Harvard education in order to play the horses...and Thaskalos is currently handicapping 5-horse fields at Belmont instead of arguing intricate cases before the Supreme Court. Let the youngsters beware.
thaskalos is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 03:03 PM   #29
Light
Registered User
 
Light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,083
Rep Power: 24 Light is a jewel in the roughLight is a jewel in the roughLight is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckMark View Post
And I can remember ANYTHING!
Really? What did you have for Breakfast on March 17 2017.
Light is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 10-02-2018, 04:13 PM   #30
CheckMark
Check Mark
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Fergus,ON
Posts: 661
Rep Power: 0 CheckMark can only hope to improve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Really? What did you have for Breakfast on March 17 2017.
As a matter of fact I had 2 pieces of toast with peanut butter like I always do!
CheckMark is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Who is shelling all of these 1-9 and 1-5 shots?
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2019 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved -- Best Viewed in a modern browser @ 1280x720 Resolution Or Higher
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.