Curlin's Beyer?

[PaceAdvantage]

Since nobody else asked, I will....what are the early Beyer returns for the Stephen Foster?

[Snow Chief]

Apparently it was a 105 according to McGee's article.

[BillW]

Revised to a 110

[o_crunk]

formblog says 110

i don't follow CD that much, but i watched the replay of the pyro race and curlin and could have sworn they were unusually slow time-wise.

surely not the same track as derby day.

[slewis]

Tell you what,


If Curlin's figure is 110. Then Pyro's gonna earn a great figure too because those times are reasonably in line.

AND.... the pace and splits in the SF were dismal, in my ever so humbling belief that pace is important in a race, allows a stalking runner to finish stronger.

Of course Curlin's weight (not factored by Beyer) will earn him a gd figure when compared to the ND stakes.

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by slewis

Tell you what,


If Curlin's figure is 110. Then Pyro's gonna earn a great figure too because those times are reasonably in line.

AND.... the pace and splits in the SF were dismal, in my ever so humbling belief that pace is important in a race, allows a stalking runner to finish stronger.

Of course Curlin's weight (not factored by Beyer) will earn him a gd figure when compared to the ND stakes.

Curlin’s performance in the Stephen Foster was very “Foregoian” in that when Allbarado ask him to run, run he did and the race was over. However you must congratulate the other jockeys for attempting to slow the pace to minimize Curlin’s big late kick, but his class allowed him to overcome that strategy.

[46zilzal]

Many horses at the top CANNOT, repeat CANNOT be evaluated on pace. WHATEVER pace is thrown at them, whatever surface, post position or weight impost makes little to no difference to them (I am thinking of the great geldings of our time Kelso, Forego and John Henry). They simply overcome it. Curlin is coming into that realm.

[plainolebill]

Originally Posted by slewis

Tell you what, If Curlin's figure is 110. Then Pyro's gonna earn a great figure too because those times are reasonably in line.

98

[slewis]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Many horses at the top CANNOT, repeat CANNOT be evaluated on pace. WHATEVER pace is thrown at them, whatever surface, post position or weight impost makes little to no difference to them (I am thinking of the great geldings of our time Kelso, Forego and John Henry). They simply overcome it. Curlin is coming into that realm.

I absolutely agree... It's not his fault (or any horses) his competition was a weak.

By the way, I dont think it's limited to just top horses. Every month I see a few horses that I believe could have won by greater margins if really pushed, but
it occurs much more frequently with the top horses.

[rastajenk]

Yesterday Curlin had a 105 and Pyro a 101. Now Curlin goes up to a 110, and Pyro goes down to a 98?

Doesn't bother me, but it should get all the rabid anti-Beyerists foaming at the mouth.

At least they can't call it a pro-Asmussen bias...or an anti-Asmussen one, for that matter.

[john del riccio]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Yesterday Curlin had a 105 and Pyro a 101. Now Curlin goes up to a 110, and Pyro goes down to a 98?

Doesn't bother me, but it should get all the rabid anti-Beyerists foaming at the mouth.

At least they can't call it a pro-Asmussen bias...or an anti-Asmussen one, for that matter.

I had CURLIN with the equivalent of a 115 Beyer, for what its worth...

John

[asH]

Is it my imagination, or is Curlin a huge horse? the others looked like ponies next to him.
By allowing Curlin to run (and develop) as a 4 year old, perhaps Asmussen can be the author of a new definition of greatness, which may keep horses on the track beyond 3 years of age. As we stand, a horse wins a jewel he’s deemed 'probable great', retires. New rule: a 3 year old cannot be considered great unless they have beaten the best of the older horses…as we have seen in recent past (10 years), the best 2’s don’t necessarily become the best 3’s. The best 3 year old may only be considered best 3 year old champion.

[Rackon]

Originally Posted by asH

Is it my imagination, or is Curlin a huge horse? the others looked like ponies next to him.
By allowing Curlin to run (and develop) as a 4 year old, perhaps Asmussen can be the author of a new definition of greatness, which may keep horses on the track beyond 3 years of age. As we stand, a horse wins a jewel he’s deemed 'probable great', retires. New rule: a 3 year old cannot be considered great unless they have beaten the best of the older horses…as we have seen in recent past (10 years), the best 2’s don’t necessarily become the best 3’s. The best 3 year old may only be considered best 3 year old champion.

News flash: this is not a new paradigm.

This has been the standard for decades. No new definition necessary.

Top 3 YOs generate feverish discussion and hype and speculation but by any real standards they aren't "great" without meeting older or racing beyond 3. Or maybe winning the TC. (Secretariat was truly great without racing at 4, but he won the TC AND beat older.) The rest are just very nice horses. Or top 3 YOs. Or even "very special". But not "great", and there's thousands of posts here bemoaning this very fact.

We get excited about 3 YOs because they're not around long - if they're talented and race well and show potential greatness they're usually whisked off to the breeding shed by the end of their 3 YO season. People get excited about top 3 YOs because the TC trail and the their 3 YO season is the only chance we'll get to see them race. Poof and they're gone.

Trainers would LOVE to keep their top 3 YOs in training to race at 4. But the owners can 't turn down the mega bucks. (I hate it but I can understand why.) So thank Mr. Jackson, not Asmussen, that Curlin's still around. Jackson and the unusual circumstances of Curlin's ownership.

Curlin is a big impressive boy.

[Rackon]

Originally Posted by john del riccio

I had CURLIN with the equivalent of a 115 Beyer, for what its worth...

John

John, where did you have Pyro's figure?

[turfbar]

Originally Posted by asH

Is it my imagination, or is Curlin a huge horse? the others looked like ponies next to him.
By allowing Curlin to run (and develop) as a 4 year old, perhaps Asmussen can be the author of a new definition of greatness, which may keep horses on the track beyond 3 years of age. As we stand, a horse wins a jewel he’s deemed 'probable great', retires. New rule: a 3 year old cannot be considered great unless they have beaten the best of the older horses…as we have seen in recent past (10 years), the best 2’s don’t necessarily become the best 3’s. The best 3 year old may only be considered best 3 year old champion.

Your avatar is DISTURBING

Turfbar