Religious

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Sheet can believe?

Or sheep?

And their so-called proselytizing sheet-pherd


....an early photo before our astute philosopher discovered time flows backwards

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

And their so-called proselytizing sheet-pherd

Hey, Hcap, did you wake up long enough to realize that I have "indubitably proved" that the Future cannot possibly flow out of the Past and terminate in the Present?

Boxcar

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Hey, Hcap, did you wake up long enough to realize that I have "indubitably proved" that the Future cannot possibly flow out of the Past and terminate in the Present?

I guess that's why you get to wear the tin foil hat

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I guess that's why you get to wear the tin foil hat

Hey....have I told you, yet, how happy I am you finally have taken me off Iggy after "all this time"?

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

As though you have always answered all mine, right?

I don't recall you ever acknowledging my posts 11379 and 11444.

Boxcar

Answer what? Your posts were preaching. Post 11379 is about predestination in eternity and salvation in time and post 11444 was about your response, to me, about Paul and his statement about being discarded.

About Paul being conflicted you may be interested or not in Philippians 3

10 I want to know Christ[f] and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death, 11 if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. [emphasis mine]

Paul then goes on to explain that he has not obtained the goal or have already reached the goal, but he stresses that he has to press on towards the goal. Additionally, he preaches we have to hold on fast to what we have actually obtained(our faith in Christ). This teaching is not stating that salvation is assured, but is stressing the need for Christians, including Paul, to press on and not lose what they have gained.

[I]12 Not that I have already obtained this or have already reached the goal;[g] but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Beloved,[h] I do not consider that I have made it my own; but this one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the heavenly[j] call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us then who are mature be of the same mind; and if you think differently about anything, this too God will reveal to you. 16 Only let us hold fast to what we have attained. Philippians 3: 12-16

I hesitated posting this, because I know you will try to return to the round and round game. We don't have to. My interpretation is salvation is not assured and we must press on, while your interpretation is salvation is assured for the elect, who were predestined in eternity past.

So what is your answer to my question about the non-elect heeding your warnings and what difference, if any does it make?

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

So what is your answer to my question about the non-elect heeding your warnings and what difference, if any does it make?

My guess is that Slippery Sam will come forth with some type of argument that in our lives we do not absolutely know "Who is the elect and Who is the reject" until some rather extraordinary epiphany occurs.
False positives will be those who believe they are elected and they really aren't.
False negatives are those who don't believe they are elected, but really are and the holy spirit will descend upon them in due time.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

My guess is that Slippery Sam will come forth with some type of argument that in our lives we do not absolutely know "Who is the elect and Who is the reject" until some rather extraordinary epiphany occurs.
False positives will be those who believe they are elected and they really aren't.
False negatives are those who don't believe they are elected, but really are and the holy spirit will descend upon them in due time.

Possibly, as that was Calvin's original teaching. However, since my brother boxcar is not a Calvinists, per se, I was wondering if boxcar thought along the lines of Pastor John Piper.

According to Piper if you are alive there is still a chance to believe and be saved. The non-elect unbelievers all over the world have another chance to believe is a gift (common Grace), just like the offer of the Gospel. This offer is provided by the cross (common Grace to all by Christ's death) to the still breathing non-elect unbelievers.

[ReplayRandall]

Bottom Line to every post in this thread...........Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.....Proverbs 3:5......


«:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::R:::» «:::F:::» «:::E:::» «:::C:::» «:::T:::»

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Answer what? Your posts were preaching. Post 11379 is about predestination in eternity and salvation in time and post 11444 was about your response, to me, about Paul and his statement about being discarded.

You don't read too swell, do you? 11379 refuted your heresy that Christians can lose their salvation. I presented several huge theological problems by citing several scriptures that dealt with the divine side to the salvation equation. Something that you are loathe to consider. No wonder you ignored that post.

My post 11444 dealt with Paul's very conflicted soul if your contradictory theology is true. He had great faith and confidence in God's faithfulness and was quite convinced in his daily life that God, who began the good work in him, would complete it; but on the other hand he lived in mortal fear and doubt every waking moment in the present that he would blow his salvation. Some god this god of yours is.

And while on the subject of posts that you conveniently ignore, you also totally ignored my 11657 wherein I again presented some thorny theological problems with your take on prayer. Plus you never answered my question as why should anyone pray for the salvation of anyone's soul to a god who cannot or will not effectuate the outcome of that person's salvation. If God cannot or will not control the outcome that is being sought after in prayer, then aren't you praying to the wrong person? Shouldn't the person to whom you direct your prayer be same one who is in absolute control of his eternal destiny, i.e. the lost sinner?

So, you have not only have a little catching up to do by addressing the various issues I have raised, but you're a prime candidate for remedial reading courses.

And your passage in Phil 3 does not tell me how it resolves the contradiction between God's sanctifying work in salvation and man's responsibility to persevere in the faith. It does not tell me how it resolves the contradiction that under the New Covenant God promises to CAUSE his people to walk in his ways and how Paul, for example, would not finally persevere and walk in God's ways. It does not resolve the contradiction of between what John said how a born again believer cannot continue in or practice sin, and how a believer can apparently do just that and lose his salvation.

And now you want to talk about predestination?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

My guess is that Slippery Sam will come forth with some type of argument that in our lives we do not absolutely know "Who is the elect and Who is the reject" until some rather extraordinary epiphany occurs.
False positives will be those who believe they are elected and they really aren't.
False negatives are those who don't believe they are elected, but really are and the holy spirit will descend upon them in due time.

Well...at the end of the day, ol' "Slippery Sam" would be spot-on, wouldn't he? I mean...only God is omniscient, right? Clearly, you're not suggesting that man is, are you?

And you can read all about those many "false positives" in Matthew 7, by the way.

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You don't read too swell, do you? 11379 refuted your heresy that Christians can lose their salvation. I presented several huge theological problems by citing several scriptures that dealt with the divine side to the salvation equation. Something that you are loathe to consider. No wonder you ignored that post..................................


And now you want to talk about predestination?

Boxcar

As I predicted.

I told you before I am no longer getting on your merry-go-round. Do you want to answer my question or not?

I don't want to talk about predestination. I want to know what you meant by your quote.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

As I predicted.

I told you before I am no longer getting on your merry-go-round. Do you want to answer my question or not?

I don't want to talk about predestination. I want to know what you meant by your quote.

Then why should I hop onto yours?

I will answer your questions when you catch up to mine. You need to drop your double standard. You whine and complain when I ignore something you have said, but then cry foul when I point out all the posts of mine you have ignored.

Get over yourself and start facing the tough questions.

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Then why should I hop onto yours?

I will answer your questions when you catch up to mine. You need to drop your double standard. You whine and complain when I ignore something you have said, but then cry foul when I point out all the posts of mine you have ignored.

Get over yourself and start facing the tough questions.

Boxcar

Whatever. You are the one that told all the non-elect unbelievers to heed you. Why should they heed you if you won't explain to them how they would benefit?

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

But understand this: Predestination unto Reprobation simply means God leaves the unrighteous in their natural state -- a state that the wicked love, by the way.

Are you saying that I am wicked?

Originally Posted by boxcar

It doesn't mean that God is forcing you to disbelieve. Unbelief is the natural state of all degenerates.

Adolf Hitler believed. Are you saying he was not a degenerate?

Originally Posted by boxcar

God merely withholds his sovereign grace (power) from the Esaus and Ishmaels of the world, which no one deserves anyway.

Why does God hide from the world? Why doesn't He reveal himself to all instead of an elect few. Because He doesn't exist?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Your response to your utterly helpless and even more hopeless condition should be one of humility and terror --

Why? If there are no ghosts why be afraid of a haunted house?

Originally Posted by boxcar

-- to humble yourself and beg God to be merciful to you and to grant you repentance and faith.

Like talking to a brick wall?

Originally Posted by boxcar

You should be like the doubting man who asked an incredulous Jesus for a miracle for another but then wound up asking Him to help his own unbelief. But you are too proud to do that, aren't you?

Pride has nothing to do with it. It's all about evidence, evidence, evidence.

How about responding to #11736.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Are you saying that I am wicked?

Well, you're not righteous, despite all the good thoughts you entertain about yourself. Are you offended? And then you wonder why God hasn't saved you? You don't believe you're [morally/spiritually] sick So, why would you need a Physician to come and save your life?

Boxcar