Colin Kaepernick

[JustRalph]

Al, I don't disagree per se with much of anything in your post.

But I will tell you that my roots run through Ohio, KY and WV. I've lived in Maine, MD, SoCal, Ohio and Texas in the 80’s and again the last 4 years. I came of age in Ohio, WV and KY during the late 60's. I watched the civil rights movement and was just old enough to get it. I had a black friend at this time who's father was very active and his actions were not hidden from me, nor was anything else. I understood what was going on. I also spent time in KY and WV where I saw actual KKK members.

I have been a police officer in four states. My most revealing association with the black community came as a 911 operator in Charlotte. I've had black friends and black employees who have revealed much about their plight. I don't know about NY but where I have lived and what I have witnessed is a complete turnaround in how blacks are treated. I'm sure it's bad in many many places. But it's not 1967 in no way shape or form.

One thing you said, "Just passing laws changes nothing" is exactly right. Forcing Americans to do anything is never a good idea. Btw, the greater discussion would be about the permanent underclass and sub culture created by the great society programs. I speak to young people who work for us about how to escape. Some get it, some revel in their plight. The blacks celebrate it in fact. The Hispanics, not so much. I'm talking about 20 somethings. Btw, the Hispanic women get it. The black women don't. The black females are a downtrodden group who are treated like shit by black men, and they accept it. It's horrible. We've had hundreds work for us over the years. The black community needs to look inside itself first.

[MutuelClerk]

1968 I was ten years old and at the Tigers vs Cardinals World Series game. Ernie Harwell invited Jose Feliciano to sing the national anthem. People were " outraged " at his version. You could hear boo's everywhere. Wasn't that disrespect? Personally I liked it. My dad like most was outraged. You listen to it now and it's pretty tame. Back then it was some Mexican disrespecting OUR country. The Star Spangled Banner shouldn't even be the national anthem. Besides Marvin Gaye's rendition my favorite national anthem ever was at my nieces lacrosse game a few years ago. The recording failed, and about 15-20 people in the stands and the players on the field sang. I believe a lot more people will not be standing in the future when national anthems are played. You can protest and still love your country. The patriotism card is a delicate issue. I can see violence happening after national anthems in the near future over peoples choice to stand or sit. Mostly because of alcohol.

[OTM Al]

I think we can all use a regular dose of looking inside ourselves. I think the phenomenon you are citing is more about poor people than it is about race. I've seen plenty of white people act exactly the same way as what you are talking about. Yes, there are differences in cultural norms, always has been, but making large generalizations as you just have does nothing but reinforce the stereotype. Plenty of white men beat on women too. You were a cop so you know what it's like showing up to a domestic and what you see when you get there. Sure things are better than 1967, but do you think it's good enough? I don't. I think there's a way to go and the further we go, the more difficult it gets because we all have to learn to face the parts of us that aren't good, and that's a difficult thing to do because those things have so long been a part of who we are. Stuff I'm seeing right now is pretty ugly still. I also believe that racial tensions will recede after the election to be replaced by new levels of misogyny. Just look at the words being used against Mrs. Clinton right now if you don't believe me.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Tom

Kaepernick looks just like Bin Laden.

OMG

[Parkview_Pirate]

I think Kareem could have said 1957, and been accurate. Obama & company have put race relations back at least 50 years. Certainly not all the factors are the same, but the level of fear and distrust is much higher today than 10 years ago.

As for Kaepernick, I thought he was the real deal when he first came in the league. With his high guaranteed salary, it not only allowed him to shoot his mouth off with fewer repercussions, but now makes him virtually untradeable.

He obviously doesn't have what it takes mentally to be successful in the NFL, so his days are numbered. However, being a lifelong Vikings fan and with Bridgewater getting hurt today, maybe Minny should consider picking him up. The Twin Cities is pretty forgiving to loud-mouth minorities.

I'd bet that within a few years, if not already, Kaepernick will regret biting the hand that fed him....

[JustRalph]

Al, you know I have great respect for you. Please take it from me. Black females are victims of domestic violence at rates that far exceed other races. To the point that it is an accepted cultural norm. It's not a stereotype. It's a fact.

No I don't think "it's good enough" but it's a hell of a lot better than the 60's

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I think we can all use a regular dose of looking inside ourselves. I think the phenomenon you are citing is more about poor people than it is about race. I've seen plenty of white people act exactly the same way as what you are talking about. Yes, there are differences in cultural norms, always has been, but making large generalizations as you just have does nothing but reinforce the stereotype. Plenty of white men beat on women too. You were a cop so you know what it's like showing up to a domestic and what you see when you get there. Sure things are better than 1967, but do you think it's good enough? I don't. I think there's a way to go and the further we go, the more difficult it gets because we all have to learn to face the parts of us that aren't good, and that's a difficult thing to do because those things have so long been a part of who we are. Stuff I'm seeing right now is pretty ugly still. I also believe that racial tensions will recede after the election to be replaced by new levels of misogyny. Just look at the words being used against Mrs. Clinton right now if you don't believe me.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

I think Kareem could have said 1957, and been accurate. Obama & company have put race relations back at least 50 years. Certainly not all the factors are the same, but the level of fear and distrust is much higher today than 10 years ago....

This is completely false. Thank you though for bringing up a race baiting talking point though. You ever think that just maybe the African American community is just tired of taking the crap and finally did something about it? You think maybe the bigots have become more outspoken because he is a black man? You think maybe because of these things it is being addressed more. That sounds like progress to me. The only complaint against the President in this respect is that they figured he would be able to do more. He couldn't because people just don't change that fast. There is disappointment. But relations have moved forward, not back. Find something real to blame him for if you want, but this is nonsense.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Al, you know I have great respect for you. Please take it from me. Black females are victims of domestic violence at rates that far exceed other races. To the point that it is an accepted cultural norm. It's not a stereotype. It's a fact.

No I don't think "it's good enough" but it's a hell of a lot better than the 60's

Not going to argue it as it isn't the point here. Maybe I've just been lucky in that all the black men I've known would never act in such a way and the women would not accept it.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

This is completely false. Thank you though for bringing up a race baiting talking point though. You ever think that just maybe the African American community is just tired of taking the crap and finally did something about it? You think maybe the bigots have become more outspoken because he is a black man? You think maybe because of these things it is being addressed more. That sounds like progress to me. The only complaint against the President in this respect is that they figured he would be able to do more. He couldn't because people just don't change that fast. There is disappointment. But relations have moved forward, not back. Find something real to blame him for if you want, but this is nonsense.

If you think Obama has improved race relations since taking office, then you're living on a different planet than the rest of us. Rather than wait for the facts, he jumped right into the Trayvon Martin case, claiming baby Trey-Trey could have been his son. What a crock. Now we all know what a white Hispanic person is.

He appointed another racist Eric Holder to one of the most important offices in government, and his track record speaks for itself. Not only did he use any excuse to fan the flames of race when it came to police shootings, he failed to actually do his job - and should have been busy locking up banksters.

Blacks have become more vocal, but that's a result of the economy hitting them harder than most. Black unemployment is up under Obama, and the Dems continue to show that keeping blacks poor is in their interest to garner their votes. And I'd really like to hear your thoughts on what Obama has done to address these issues - 'cause what I've observed is a some yappin' with no real results.

As for bigots being more outspoken because Obama is black - that's also a crock. Those of us who are critical of him have our reasons - his incompetence, his Marxism, his narcissism along with his racism. Also demonstrated by his wife.

Seems to me you're the one doing the race baiting.

[PhantomOnTour]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Lots of rumors on the web, not confirmed by any major news source, that Kaepernick converted to Islam over the off season and that he is engaged to a Black Lives Matter activist.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/

And he handles the pig skin on Sundays?
Hmmmm...I bet THAT ain't kosher

[JustRalph]

Just for the record

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/do...tatisitcs.html

"African Americans

African Americans, especially African American Women, suffer deadly violence from family members at rates decidedly higher than for other racial groups in the United States. However, it is observed that research concerning family violence among African Americans is inadequate.

Overall, African Americans were victimized by intimate partners a significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black females experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. Black males experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races. "

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

If you think Obama has improved race relations since taking office, then you're living on a different planet than the rest of us. Rather than wait for the facts, he jumped right into the Trayvon Martin case, claiming baby Trey-Trey could have been his son. What a crock. Now we all know what a white Hispanic person is.

He appointed another racist Eric Holder to one of the most important offices in government, and his track record speaks for itself. Not only did he use any excuse to fan the flames of race when it came to police shootings, he failed to actually do his job - and should have been busy locking up banksters.

Blacks have become more vocal, but that's a result of the economy hitting them harder than most. Black unemployment is up under Obama, and the Dems continue to show that keeping blacks poor is in their interest to garner their votes. And I'd really like to hear your thoughts on what Obama has done to address these issues - 'cause what I've observed is a some yappin' with no real results.

As for bigots being more outspoken because Obama is black - that's also a crock. Those of us who are critical of him have our reasons - his incompetence, his Marxism, his narcissism along with his racism. Also demonstrated by his wife.

Seems to me you're the one doing the race baiting.

Whatever there Talking Point Pirate. I guess you liked it better when they knew their place. Some of the stuff you have here is straight out of the white supremacist playbook, but let's deal with some of the more real things you have here. So the President I guess is responsible for the economy by what you are saying because there is a plot to keep blacks poor. And I guess he has such great control that the blacks are kept down while keeping white people happy with the market at an all time high. Doesn't even make sense.

You also clearly have no idea what a Marxist is. Mr. Obama is a centrist like pretty much every president has to be to get elected. He leans left on some issues, but isn't remotely a Marxist. I'll point out again that when Mrs. Clinton is elected you will see a slight shift in these words your favorite alt right press uses to criticize her as we shift from terms applied to blacks to those applied to women. Frankly, the right is in support of the one greatest issue that results in keeping people poor and increase in crime and that is their anti abortion stance. It is no coincidence that crime rates began to fall right around 20 years after Roe.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Just for the record

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/do...tatisitcs.html

"African Americans

African Americans, especially African American Women, suffer deadly violence from family members at rates decidedly higher than for other racial groups in the United States. However, it is observed that research concerning family violence among African Americans is inadequate.

Overall, African Americans were victimized by intimate partners a significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black females experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. Black males experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races. "

I'll have to look at this Ralph. It is initially unclear in your blurb how data was gathered and what was controlled for.

[chadk66]

I agree, Obama has taken race relations back many many years.

[highnote]

As Donald Trump likes to say, "Bad publicity is better than no publicity."

Kaep got what he wanted -- attention to a cause he cares about.

If everyone just ignored him there would be no controversy. But no. Everyone has to chime in -- including me. So here are my random thoughts after reading through this thread...

Jackie Robinson said he could not stand and salute the flag during the national anthem knowing that he is a black man in a white world. Robinson is a national hero.

The third verse of the anthem makes a reference to slavery that some interpret to be anti-abolitionist because Francis Scott Key owned slaves and slaves were offered freedom by the British if they fought against the colonists. Colonists viewed this as treasonous.

Man, if you were a slave, that put you in a tough spot!!!

This is the third verse:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Personally, I think the National Anthem is overused. Why is it played before nearly every boys high school basketball and football game?

On the other hand, why is it not played before every high school sporting event? Why is it not played before middle school and elementary school games? Don't tell me it's because there is no loud speaker system. The scorekeeper for our high school basketball games sang it accapella.

It is played just about every day before the races if I am remembering correctly. Interesting tradition to play it before a gambling event.

Personally, I do not care how Kaep acts during the national anthem. It doesn't affect how I feel about the song or what it represents.

I do not care how Rosanne Barr sang the national anthem. She's an American comedian. Her rendition reflected the comedic style she is known for. If she is not a good singer, then perhaps it is appropriate that she is not afraid to put on public display how awful a singer she is? Is it really any different in substance from what Lady Gaga did? Gaga did a terrific job at the Super Bowl, but she's a professional singer. I don't recall anyone ever claiming Rosanne was a professional singer.

If the U.S. had a national joke and Lady Gaga butchered it, would people get upset?

I've heard some awful renditions of the national anthem, but the singers were sincere, so that made it ok. Just because Rosanne can't sing doesn't mean she was trying to be disrespectful. She was having fun at a fun event. Isn't that what the song represents -- our freedom and how freedom makes attending baseball games possible?

And even if she was trying to be disrespectful, I don't care. It doesn't change how I feel about what the old English drinking song that has become our national anthem represents.

The song has only been our national anthem since 1931.

Personally, I'd prefer if our national anthem was "America the Beautiful". The lyrics and melody were written by natural born Americans.