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08-30-2016, 11:26 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,625
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What constitutes a good Trainer? -- and why?
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?
I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.
What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?
Let me know what you think.
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08-30-2016, 11:54 PM
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#2
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NoPoints4ME
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?
I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.
What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?
Let me know what you think.
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I love trainers with nice initials, like, C C Brown
On a more serious note. I like ALL trainers. Especially ones where I can identify their patterns, their strengths, their weaknesses and their go to moves.
I don't like trainers who move horses up ridiculously (30 beyer points with no visible reason) as I will stay away from races of that nature for the most part.
I like big name trainers that lose, as it creates value. I love formulator and the way I can specifically look at a trainers entire barn for specific patterns, trends, etc.
What I like the most is when TheOracle points out that C C Brown 8th time starters, that use jockeys with last names starting with an R, S, or T AND run on Wednesdays with a ML of 8/5 or 9/5 are 3 for their last 4 with a 2.10 ROI!!!!
I can see that the 18 horses C C Brown entered last saturday have you fuming a bit so to answer your question: I think the top trainer is the one that gets the most out of their horses WITHOUT JUICING THEM.
Sorry for the curving RANT
Keep up the good work Oracle!
Last edited by EMD4ME; 08-30-2016 at 11:55 PM.
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08-31-2016, 12:15 AM
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#3
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
I love formulator and the way I can specifically look at a trainers entire barn for specific patterns, trends, etc.
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How do you do that using formulator...I don't know anything about formulator but have always wanted to know the complete roster of horses for each trainer...
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08-31-2016, 12:19 AM
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#4
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NoPoints4ME
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey
How do you do that using formulator...I don't know anything about formulator but have always wanted to know the complete roster of horses for each trainer...
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You do a "query". You can pull up every single starter that a trainer has had in the last 5 years. Then filter in so many different ways. Good stuff
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08-31-2016, 12:56 AM
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#5
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
You do a "query". You can pull up every single starter that a trainer has had in the last 5 years. Then filter in so many different ways. Good stuff
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Honest question.
Why would I want to know what a trainer did last year, much less 5 years ago?
Especially at meets like Toga, Del Mar, and Keeneland.
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08-31-2016, 02:19 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Audubon, PA
Posts: 427
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Intelligence and experience, in that order
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08-31-2016, 02:35 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott Sidewater
Intelligence and experience, in that order
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Now...if only we could get a trainer to admit that he/she is unintelligent and inexperienced.
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08-31-2016, 06:13 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,772
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for a great trainer all you need to know is LOUIS RUBERTO
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08-31-2016, 06:26 AM
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#9
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NoPoints4ME
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
Honest question.
Why would I want to know what a trainer did last year, much less 5 years ago?
Especially at meets like Toga, Del Mar, and Keeneland.
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The 5 year database gives you a solid sample size. 1 trainer might be 20% at kee with FTS 2 year olds but 0/47 with 2 year old FTS at the spa.
For me knowing that Jane dough is a 15% trainer with First time starting 2 year olds is not enough. I want track specific stats.
Just 1 example , many more but time to go to work
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08-31-2016, 12:49 PM
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#10
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
The 5 year database gives you a solid sample size. 1 trainer might be 20% at kee with FTS 2 year olds but 0/47 with 2 year old FTS at the spa.
For me knowing that Jane dough is a 15% trainer with First time starting 2 year olds is not enough. I want track specific stats.
Just 1 example , many more but time to go to work
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Any theory as to why stats like that would vary so much? Time of year? Random? Deliberate?
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08-31-2016, 12:58 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Benton, La.
Posts: 1,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?
I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.
What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?
Let me know what you think.
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How a trainer is ranked, if it's wins, purses, etc, is dependent on the horses that he has. You can have a good trainer that knows how to train and take care of his horses, but if he has some cheap stock he will never be up there in earnings. An average trainer with good horses will. My point is when you are trying to rate a trainer look at what he has to work with. Trainers are not miracle workers, they just try to condition their stock to get the most out of it.
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08-31-2016, 02:04 PM
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#12
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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I've heard that theory bandied about.
By that standard, there are no bad trainers.
Think about it.
It's a bad theory.
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08-31-2016, 04:51 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ARIZONA
Posts: 2,145
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I start my handicapping process with downloading & printing the HDW trainer stats. I then go through them & using a red pen for positive, pencil for negative and blue ink for neutral try to seperate the wheat from the shaft. Sometime if I'm playing a card in debth I'll use these with formulator.
What I think makes a great trainer is someone who brings some clarity to the race. In today's 4th at DEL Jackie Acksel brought such clarity. Jackie is 0 for 6 off a layoff. 0 for 7 going route to sprint & 8% off a purse drop with an ROI of .19. Jackie is also 1 for 32 at Del with an ROI of .07. Jackies horse had a morning line of 6-1 & I could toos it without a moments hesitation. This is an example of a GREAT trainer, at least for this race.
__________________
The fan base demographics are not particularly positive," he said. "I guess we can either risk alienating them or letting them die off. " -Bob Evans 6/25/2007
My posts & letters & avatars & whatever reflect solely my own world view- Born in 1948 and never an I.C.E. visit
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08-31-2016, 06:52 PM
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#14
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NoPoints4ME
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltonKelsey
Any theory as to why stats like that would vary so much? Time of year? Random? Deliberate?
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Deliberate, especially if you are looking at 5 years worth of work. Let's say I live near Kee and I'm a trainer. Don't you think I would be better with 2YO FTS at KEE as opposed to Belmont in September? Many times, or 90% of the time, we won't know why, all I know is what and that is enough.
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08-31-2016, 06:55 PM
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#15
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NoPoints4ME
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 9,854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
Honest question.
Why would I want to know what a trainer did last year, much less 5 years ago?
Especially at meets like Toga, Del Mar, and Keeneland.
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I learned from the David Litfin way of doing things. Cut out the PPS of every winner of the day. Paste them in a notebook. Compare prior winners of trainers to the entries of those trainers today.
I love that homework. I can't tell you how many times I found a 1st off the claim that had the same pattern as a recent X trainer winner from 2 weeks ago. Usually with same ownership and jock. Trainers are superstitious....patterns do emerge.
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