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01-08-2010, 06:27 AM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,960
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Bert Blyleven for HOF
The greatest HOF injustice is not the election of Andre Dawson, or the banishment of Pete Rose. Rather, it is the exclusion of Bert Blyleven.
A good case for his inclusion is made here...
baseballanalysts.com/archives/2005/12/the_hall_of_fam.php
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01-08-2010, 08:17 AM
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#17
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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I imagine many haven't forgotten the spitting incident with Alomar which probably kept him out the first time.
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01-08-2010, 11:16 AM
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#18
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Frontrunner
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 2,797
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Pace, you make an excellent point with Blyleven. The benchmark has always been 300 wins, but now, the mark is almost impossible to reach. It's time to start rewarding those who came close, like Blyleven and, more recently, Mussina, instead of finding ways to exclude them.
Also, I wouldn't be shocked if the Veteran's Committee found a way to induct Tommy John. He won 288 games, and the surgery he opted to undergo ended up changing the game and lengthening the careers of several players.
__________________
Aspiring turf writer and handicapper. Follow me on Twitter at @AndrewChampagne!
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01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
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#19
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Easy Goer
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa,Florida
Posts: 3,440
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The shame of it is Dawson played the last x# of years virtually without knees; thanks to the concrete that ate up so many players in Montréal.
__________________
Dan G
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“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” ~ George Bernard Shaw
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01-08-2010, 02:45 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 16,487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG
The shame of it is Dawson played the last x# of years virtually without knees; thanks to the concrete that ate up so many players in Montréal.
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Absolutely. Not that dissimilar from Mantle in that his knees kept him from putting up even bigger numbers than what he did.
BTW, Dawson did something you'd never see today. In early 1987, he went to Dallas Green, then GM of the Cubs, gave him a contract and told Green that HE could fill in the amount. Green ended up filling it out for $500K, a pittance even 23 years ago for the MVP of the league that season. Can't imagine many players doing that nowadays.
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01-08-2010, 10:58 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valuist
Absolutely. Not that dissimilar from Mantle in that his knees kept him from putting up even bigger numbers than what he did.
BTW, Dawson did something you'd never see today. In early 1987, he went to Dallas Green, then GM of the Cubs, gave him a contract and told Green that HE could fill in the amount. Green ended up filling it out for $500K, a pittance even 23 years ago for the MVP of the league that season. Can't imagine many players doing that nowadays.
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Great Point, an athlete signing a blank contract...special.
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Swami13
Hopelessness is the key........it's my only hope.
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01-08-2010, 11:58 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pace Cap'n
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Best curveball pitcher I have ever seen. When he was w/ the Rangers he never had any support from the lineup. Lost a bunch of 2-1 and 3-2 games, never complained....That guy was pure greatness on the mound.
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“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” -Joe Biden
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01-09-2010, 02:02 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElKabong [QUOTE
]Best curveball pitcher I have ever seen.
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When he was w/ the Rangers he never had any support from the lineup. Lost a bunch of 2-1 and 3-2 games, never complained....That guy was pure greatness on the mound.[/QUOTE]
Apparently you never saw Koufax's yellow hammer.
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01-11-2010, 02:38 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,436
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when you think of blyleven you think of the deuce automatically. he's a hall of famer no doubt. he was a pitcher; not a meathead thrower. i can't think of a pitcher nowadays with a curveball like blyleven, but umpires don't call the curveball correctly anymore. i think thats why you don't see as many pitchers with it anymore. the best curveballs rise and then fall. if a pitcher throws it correctly when it rises its tough to lay off it. as a hitter if it doesn't rise you can time it and hit it much easier. when it rises it makes it difficult to judge where its going to be when it falls. i don't know of a pitcher currently that has a curve that rises and falls.
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01-11-2010, 03:49 PM
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#25
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,829
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Blyleven was very lucky his arm held up. That pitch is very tough on the arm. Gregg Olson had an incredible curve ball, similar to his, but his arm just couldn't last.
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01-11-2010, 04:28 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bisket
when you think of blyleven you think of the deuce automatically. he's a hall of famer no doubt. he was a pitcher; not a meathead thrower. i can't think of a pitcher nowadays with a curveball like blyleven, but umpires don't call the curveball correctly anymore. i think thats why you don't see as many pitchers with it anymore. the best curveballs rise and then fall. if a pitcher throws it correctly when it rises its tough to lay off it. as a hitter if it doesn't rise you can time it and hit it much easier. when it rises it makes it difficult to judge where its going to be when it falls. i don't know of a pitcher currently that has a curve that rises and falls.
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Actually it would violate the laws of physics for a pitch to rise as you describe.These ++ pitches, 4 seam fastballs and power curves don't drop as quickly as lesser pitches and thus create the optical illusion of hopping or rising.
Last edited by Hank; 01-11-2010 at 04:30 PM.
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01-11-2010, 04:37 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Blyleven was very lucky his arm held up. That pitch is very tough on the arm. Gregg Olson had an incredible curve ball, similar to his, but his arm just couldn't last.
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actually the curveball isn't hard on the arm when thrown correctly. the overhand curve that blyleven and gregg olsen threw doesn't hurt the arm anymore than the overhand fastball. its the pitchers that throw 3/4 that throw the curve that get arm injuries. the 3/4 curveball; or the slurve as mike flanagen and scott mcgregor are famous for; is the pitch that hurts the arm. its action is similar to the slider with a much larger break, but is thrown similar to the curve out of a 3/4 delivery.
Last edited by bisket; 01-11-2010 at 04:39 PM.
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